Playing on Really Large Maps

[Petek]

The following problem has been bugging me for several years. Does anyone have a solution?

I like playing on maps larger than 256x256, but haven't been able to get the game to run on any map larger than 305x305 (except as described below). In this thread, gwillybj showed how to modify alpha.txt to produce maps larger than 256x256. He was able to use a 360x360 map, even though his system (in 2003) had 32MB of system RAM and 2MB of video RAM.

My current system has 2GB of system RAM and 256MB of video RAM, so you'd think that it could handle a 360x360 map. Not so. I get a CTD everytime I try to start a game with a map larger than 305x305.

Now the odd thing is that I can load really large maps (up to 1024x1024, the largest I've tried) in the scenario editor, create a scenario and then play the game from there. I just can't start a game in the usual way with these mega-large maps.

I've tried running the game in compatibility mode, and modifying Alpha Centauri.ini. Tried both SMAC and SMAX (both fully patched). Uninstalled and re-installed multiple times. While the game is loading (but before it crashes), I monitor memory use. At the time of the CTD, I have more than 1 GB of free memory.

I'd be curious whether anyone can start a game with the map map360sq.zip, attached to one of gwillybj's post in the above-referenced thread. Even better would be if someone knows how to fix this problem.

Thanks!

Petek

[gwillybj]

I recently bought a new PC with many times the capacity of my old one.
On this new PC, I am currently playing a game on a 360x180 map.
I created the map in the usual manner and saved it with a short but useful filename.
Then I started a new game in the usual manner, selecting Load Map then choosing this map, and continuing through the rest of the game setup.
I am up to turn 344 (M.Y. 3344, starting in 3000) with no problems -- well, none related to the size of the map
I will see if I can start a game on the map you referenced, and report the results here.

[gwillybj]

I downloaded that 360x360 map. I could do whatever I wanted to do with it in the Scenario Editor, but I could not play a game on it.

I ran some tests with various map sizes.
Failed means the game would not play; Passed means it would.

360x264=95040 spaces ... FAILED, as did everything higher
308x308=94864 ... FAILED
360x262=94320 ... PASSED
307x307=94249 ... PASSED, as did everything lower

360x180=64800 ... PASSED

So, somewhere between 94320 and 94864 spaces is the sweet spot, the maximum number of spaces on which the game will play.

I rarely ever do anything with the Scenario Editor, so if you can get those massive maps to play by creating a scenario on them, that's great!

[Petek]

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. I'd assumed that you were playing on that 360x360 map from the prior thread, but can see that you didn't explicitely say so.

Your calculations approximately correspond to my own experience with a 305x305 (=93025 spaces) map.

Now knowing of this built-in limit, I created a 1024x1024 map (all land, no sea), and set up a scenario. It plays fine (but slow) and should keep me busy for quite some time.

Thanks again!

Petek

[vyeh]

Isn't 1024x1024 quite a bit larger than 360x360? I assumed you created a scenario, since it is all land. Could you post it? Thanks.

[Petek]

Originally posted by vyeh
Isn't 1024x1024 quite a bit larger than 360x360?

Yes, approximately eight times larger!

I assumed you created a scenario, since it is all land. Could you post it? Thanks.

Yes, I created a scenario to play a game with the map. I'll post it, but you have to understand that this isn't one of your "Darsnan Specials". I didn't tinker with the map that much. Just made sure that each faction had a reasonable starting location and not too close to any other faction. Each faction has one base already built, another Colony pod, a free former and the usual scout and whatever.

Also, Doc Flex and Doc Init, as well as the Maritime Control Center are still in the game, even though there is no sea.

This file will unzip into a 20+ MB file. Unzip it into your Scenarios folder.

Petek

EDIT: BTW, this scenario is for SMAX, not SMAC. And you may have to edit your Alphax.txt to change the ending year to something like 3000 or so. It's unlikely that a game on this map will end within the normal ending years.

[vyeh]

Thanks. I downloaded it. I won't get to it until I finish the current demo game.

[MoNoLitH]

I too enjoy big maps. I've a question - how do you overcome the usual instabilities that large maps create? I get FAR more CTD's and random error-report crashes on enormous maps.

Also, later in the game, the computer gets SLOW. I had to ditch my current development game because I was waiting up to 5 minutes before it was my frickin turn again - not fun.

[Petek]

Originally posted by MoNoLitH
I too enjoy big maps. I've a question - how do you overcome the usual instabilities that large maps create? I get FAR more CTD's and random error-report crashes on enormous maps.

What size of map are you talking about? I can play a 256x256 with no more than the usual problems (that is, infrequent).

Also, later in the game, the computer gets SLOW. I had to ditch my current development game because I was waiting up to 5 minutes before it was my frickin turn again - not fun.

Again, I don't have this problem on most large maps. Does your computer have sufficient RAM and a fast CPU?

OTOH, my current game on the 1024x1024 map desribed above ran slowly right from turn 1. I just Alt-Tab and do something else until the turn ends.

[gwillybj]

Originally posted by MoNoLitH
I too enjoy big maps. I've a question - how do you overcome the usual instabilities that large maps create? I get FAR more CTD's and random error-report crashes on enormous maps.

I would say you're tapping the limits of your PC's capacity, most of all RAM.

Also, later in the game, the computer gets SLOW. I had to ditch my current development game because I was waiting up to 5 minutes before it was my frickin turn again - not fun.

Again, RAM, but even more so CPU speed.

I had the same two problems on my old PC with an AMD K6/266, 32MB RAM, a low-end graphics card, and Windows 98. When I upgraded to a new PC with an AMD Athlon 64x2, 1GB RAM, an nVidia GeForce 6150LE, and Windows XP, nearly all such problems went away. On that old PC, I played on my 256x208 map and nearly always had a good book handy because the mid-to-late-game AI turns regularly took 5-20 minutes!

The most common problem causing a CTD are my units getting into the top two or bottom two rows on the map - I can't move them (by any method) without the crash. This happens to me no matter what the map size.

I've had to abandon only one game (on a 360x180 map, btw), and that was because of an inescapable TERRAN.ICD error, even going back to Autosave 5 and making significantly diffferent moves and decisions - the game always ended up crashing on the same turn - during the same AI faction turn, in fact. Stunk, too, because that game was really challenging and going very well.

[MoNoLitH]

It's not my machine - it's a 3.0 GhZ Gateway with 1 GB DDR PC133 SDRAm and a Radeon X800 Series GPU. It's fairly dated for modern games, I know, but for classics like SMAC/X - it's more than capable of running them. It just doesn't run stable all the time - probably due to Windows XP Pro + SP2 and other more modern stuff.

Yes, I installed the XP compatibility patch, and I'm forcing the old voxel algorithm. I also run with visual themes disabled and in 256 colors mode; trying to use compatibility mode only causes the game to refuse to start at all. It took quite a lot of tinkering to get it to run on this PC. My previous PC, an older Windows Me box, is no longer operational I'm afraid. That was the original PC I ran SMAC on starting in late 2000. Vastly inferior stats, but the game ran 100% stable.

[Petek]

I think you're saying that:

* Your older Windows ME system ran large maps with no problems. (So did mine.)

* Your newer Windows XP system has stability issues and has problems running larger maps. (My XP system is stable and runs fine with large maps.)

Sounds to me like you have to stabilize the system first. That could be the root cause of the SMAC problems.

Petek

[gwillybj]

Originally posted by MoNoLitH
It's not my machine - it's a 3.0 GhZ Gateway with 1 GB DDR PC133 SDRAm and a Radeon X800 Series GPU. It's fairly dated for modern games, I know, but for classics like SMAC/X - it's more than capable of running them. It just doesn't run stable all the time - probably due to Windows XP Pro + SP2 and other more modern stuff.

Yes, I installed the XP compatibility patch, and I'm forcing the old voxel algorithm. I also run with visual themes disabled and in 256 colors mode; trying to use compatibility mode only causes the game to refuse to start at all. It took quite a lot of tinkering to get it to run on this PC. My previous PC, an older Windows Me box, is no longer operational I'm afraid. That was the original PC I ran SMAC on starting in late 2000. Vastly inferior stats, but the game ran 100% stable.

Your stats look good - as you said, more than capable.
You shouldn't have to disable visual themes, force 256-color mode, or use compatibility mode. My PC's desktop uses one of HP's ready-made themes and runs in 32-bit color mode at 1280x1024, and I run SMAX from a desktop shortcut that bypasses axstart.exe (it likes to do strange things other than running the game) by calling terranx.exe directly. SMAC runs by calling terran.exe with a desktop shortcut.

Petek said the most meaningful thing though - whatever is causing your stability problems may likely be causing your SMACX problems.

[MoNoLitH]

I too use a direct shortcut as the launcher is trash, I agree.

The reason I force 256 colors mode was an attempt to correct in game color issues - specifically, the game has an odd habit of not correctly coloring faction bases on the minimap, making it difficult for me to determine the situation accurately. For example, my last game the Morganites, Spartans, and University all showed up as white on the minimap, and they were all near each other - very confusing.

My machine IS due for a reformat - perhaps I should do it now and hope that fixes things.

[Petek]

Originally posted by MoNoLitH
My machine IS due for a reformat - perhaps I should do it now and hope that fixes things.

You might want to run some system diagnostics before resorting to a reformat. Gateway's web site might have some downloadable diag tools. If (just as an example) you have a flakey RAM chip, that could be causing these problems and a reformat won't help.