Disable Mindworms?

[SexyElf]

Hello,

I wonder if there is anyway to disable end-game planet mindworm production? I am really annoyed at the moment because I am trying to have a fun game, not going for anything big, and each turn 50+ mindworms assualt my bases I lost 5 secret projects and a full 40 pop base because of all the mindworms.

So, if there is anyway to disable them completely (not from production, but from the planet making them appear due to econ problems) that would be great to know

Thanks

[Hydro]

Howdy,
Instead of disabling them you may want to prepare for them. This includes:

* Have a good Planet rating (I'm not sure this is absolutely true, but some of my worm outbreaks are minimal when my Planet rating has been high)
* Have lots of Trance/resonance armor defenders. Mag tubes help shuttling defenders around, even if part of the network is toasted. This might have saved your uber-base that the worms ate.
* Have lots of psi attack units or units with high moral. One or two 1-1-3empath hovertanks can do wonders!
* Consider an empath air force, or even a trance air force. You can only attack once, but the coverage may be worth it. Note that air attack units do not get the 50% attack bonus.
* Lastly - and most importantly - attack instead of defend. Those massed mounds of worms are sitting ducks. A few defenders can do massive amounts of damage - see the multiple attack units above. For instance, that elite and ancient impact rover can be worth its weight in energy (which considering the mass of energy vs mass, that's a lot!).

Play with it, and see what mix works best for you.

Hydro

[SexyElf]

Hello,

Yes, I do prepare, well atleast in previous games. This game I am playing Morgans and recently adjusted SE to modifer moral values to +3. I was building defense units with +25% psi defense.

Considering the game only lets you build a maximum of one unit a turn, and currently is attacking me with 50+ mind worms, you can see the problem of not being able to defend properly.

Again, I repeat, this is a fun game, I'm not looking to build massive armies, I was interested in seeing what sort of market/econ abilities morgans had end-game. In all other games, I would've prepared for the end-game mind-worm stuff, but to tell you the truth, I've never encountered so many mind worms before. The game is even set up as "rare native life form appearance".

However, in the future, if there is a way to turn off the mind worms, it would be a lot more fun. Consider playing Civ4, and the barbarian tribes appear always throughout the game, always having the ability to create units at will, destroy your improvements and spawn anywhere. Fair?

Note: the obvious reason for the mind worms is to offset your base production values and stop players or ai from becoming power houses. While I think this is fair in reason, and I don't mind having mind worms attack me, but it is annoying when each couple of turns, a mass of worms (starting low, but after a couple turns reaching 20-50+ worms) that are demon boisl spawn next to your base. Perhaps the players ability to play the game should not be destroyed in order to create a balanced environment. Faulty game design if you ask me.

[Hydro]

Hmmm. Here are a couple more ideas:

Trance - gives you 50% defense against psi. Generally free
Resonance armor - 25% psi defense
Sensor within 2 hexes of base - gives you 25% defense
Morale - as good as you can get (but, frankly, trance, resonance, and sensors are more important)
Base - gives you 25% defense (I'm not completely sure this is true in psi, though)
Perimeter defense - useless against worms
All armor but resonance - useless against worms
Unarmored (civilian) - 50% penalty in psi defense
Unit in fungus - ~50% penalty, may be 100% penalty (eg - your unarmored former in the fungus is dead meat)

Put these elements of psi defense together and you have a very respectable defense.

So, for some very inexpensive defenders you can get a 1-1t-1 (no armor infantry) for 10 mins. It will beat the pants off any fancy armor in worm defense and can generally be built in one turn.

Attack - the attacker gets a 50% psi bonus on land (air and sea there is no bonus either way), so attack the worms that pull up to your bases before they attack you.

Terrain - remove all fungus within 1 hex of your bases. This means any roving worms will have to stop in the improved terrain (worms treat fungus as roads and have 3 movement and can only move 1 hex in all non-fungus) - and you can get it before it gets you. This prevents the nasty random worm attack before you can attack it.

Planet - always a problem for Morgan running Free Market wiht -3 Planet. This draws worms, and you have a negative modifying to attack (ouch!). Of course you're pulling in oodles of energy, but life is hard before you get some trance defenders, sensors, and terraforming.

Also, put sensors out on the perimeter (but within 2 hexes) of your bases. This will give you advance warning, which means everything for random worm attacks.

As I recall there is a turn delay between the bloom and the worm attack. This means you get to attack before they swamp you.

Lastly, I don't think you can turn off worms. They are the core of SMAC since they 'are' Planet. Moders may have ideas for you, though.

Hydro

[Leon Trotsky]

Artillery is quite effective against stacks of mindworms (like the ones caused by fungal pops). SAM artillery is good at weakening Locusts of Chiron, which are somewhat more difficult to deal with due to the 1:1 nature of air combat.

In a desperate -and particular- situation (very low morale and planet rating but high power weaponry), self destructing a unit to deal with mindworms might prove worthy.

[SexyElf]

Okay, good info, I'll see if I have researched trance yet

Another Q about mindworm spawning. I understand they can only spawn in fungus, and the fungus can destroy improves if it appears. However, if a unit (say a psi unit) is placed on every square around your bases, will the fungus grow there and possibly destroy the unit in the square?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by SexyElf
Okay, good info, I'll see if I have researched trance yet

Another Q about mindworm spawning. I understand they can only spawn in fungus, and the fungus can destroy improves if it appears. However, if a unit (say a psi unit) is placed on every square around your bases, will the fungus grow there and possibly destroy the unit in the square?

A fungus pop will not destroy a unit. In fact there is a game bug where your unit can be siiting on the same tile as a bunched of popped natives. Yoi have to move your umit off the stack or you could actually have your units fight each other

[Petek]

The previous suggestions focus on how to exploit mindworms after they appear after a pop. It is possible to prevent them from appearing at all. Here are two ways to do so:

1. You can disable them in the scenario editor. If you do so, you won't get a score at the end of the game. Here's how to do so:

* Press Ctrl-K to open the Scenario Editor.
* Select the Menu.
* Select Scenario.
* Select Edit Scenario Rules.
* Select the first choice (No native life).
* Exit the Scenario Editor.

2. You can exploit an anomaly in the rules. This suggestion will allow you to produce as many minerals as you like (at all bases) without causing any ecodamage (and hence no mindworm pops).

Each base can produce a certain number of minerals before ecodamage occurs (the so-called clean mineral limit). It was discovered several years ago that building certain base facilities (Tree Farms, Hybrid Forests, Centauri Preserves and Temples of Planet) increases the clean mineral limit, but only after the first pop takes place.

So, what you need to do is to induce a pop by crawling lots of minerals at one base. After you get the pop, then build lots of Tree Farms and/or Centauri Preserves.

More details may be found here.

[vyeh]

I have the opposite problem. I'm playing the Mac version. This has occured both in SMAC and SMAX.

After a certain point, the mindworms stop spontaneously appearing. In the current SMAX game, I'm in 2317, with FM. I think my planet rating is -3 (I'm playing Believers and I have the Manifold Nexus within my territory).

I can still produce worms if I move my 6re-1-2 rovers in the fungus, but don't get any worms spontaneously attacking. (I've already disbanded all my garrisons.)

In a previous SMAC game, I was Gaians.

I had always assumed that the game stopped producing MW when you got some SP or the other. I do have Xenoempathy and some other SP's that give me bonuses against MW attacks.

I really do like attacking those MW's with elite and commando 6er-1-2 rovers for the 40 ep!

[Petek]

I think that the Xenoempathy Dome prevents worms from appearing randomly in fungus.

[Straybow]

Does it? I don't really remember.

[Petek]

Originally posted by Straybow
Does it? I don't really remember.

I guess it doesn't! Tested it with the scenario editor and still ran into worms even though I gave myself the Xenoempathry Dome SP. Must've been thinking of something else.

[Mead]

All those worms appearing at once?

Have you seriously busted the clean mins limit?


A few notes with worms.

Attack don't defend.
Go after the big stack - hitting it with a surface unit will (assuming you win) take out the entire start with great profits for you. Usually when you have a pop appear there will be on square with one worm next to another with 4 to 16 or more.

Soften up with artillery first if you can.

If you have to deal with locust then use SAM artillary.
You can have SAM, and Empath in the same artillary package if you build SAM, artillary ships/foils. They can be devasting against locusts.

I have and I know of others too who have done all they can to tick off planet (doing nothing to raise the clean mins limit, having very high min bases, plus commiting numerous atrocities - think gas and PBs) to increase the native attacks.
Yes the sea levels will rise, but that will allow you SAM, empath, ships to go just about anywhere.

Once so equipped you have nothing to worry about native life forms.


Mead

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Mead
All those worms appearing at once?

Have you seriously busted the clean mins limit?


A few notes with worms.

Attack don't defend.
Go after the big stack - hitting it with a surface unit will (assuming you win) take out the entire start with great profits for you. Usually when you have a pop appear there will be on square with one worm next to another with 4 to 16 or more.

Soften up with artillery first if you can.

If you have to deal with locust then use SAM artillary.
You can have SAM, and Empath in the same artillary package if you build SAM, artillary ships/foils. They can be devasting against locusts.

I have and I know of others too who have done all they can to tick off planet (doing nothing to raise the clean mins limit, having very high min bases, plus commiting numerous atrocities - think gas and PBs) to increase the native attacks.
Yes the sea levels will rise, but that will allow you SAM, empath, ships to go just about anywhere.

Once so equipped you have nothing to worry about native life forms.


Mead

I mirror mead's comments-- Mindworms are more often an opportunity than a problem

[BlackCat]

Just one thing - be sure to destroy any bunkers when these massive pops start.

If a pop happens on a tile with bunker, you can neither capture nor destroy the whole stack but has to deal with them one by one.

I'm not sure if arty make multiple damage in that situation.