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  • Questions on reputation & diplomacy

    My Hive game is improving, but I decided to go back and play the other factions so that I at least have some clue as to how they all play. Anyway, I saw a comment here on poly about a Gaian ICS that built only formers, colony pods and military units and I thought "Hmm, that sounds like an interesting game. Let's give that one a try."

    So I cranked up a game, spotted the jungle and coudn't resist moving my first pod there to settle. (I had "look first" on). I immediately popped a Unity Rover and sent it a-scouting.

    I soon found a Morganic base. (I also scaled the map down from standard, which I usually play, to small). He offered Treaty. I declined. He offered me 100 credits to enter into a treaty. I decided that there was no harm in being a whore this once, and accepted. Then I thought, "I wonder why he was so eager for me to join the treaty. I wonder if anyone's home here at Morgan HQ." So I sent my rover to knock on the door. Lo and behold, nobody was home! So I had 100 energy credits in my pocket and CEO Morgan in my basement. All before my first base was even settled. Seemed like a pretty good deal.

    I founded my HQ and started work on a scout. I built a couple of scouts and went out pod-popping. Soon, I ran into some Hive units. I kept scouting and was fortunate enough to capture a couple of worms and pop two AAs and another rover. All in all, it had been a good beginning. I traded Yang for Doctrine Loyalty and used the AAs to advance the Command Nexus. I took my worms and wandered over towards The Hive. Once there, I decided to see who was home at The Hive. Their HQ was poorly defended; as it turned out, there was nobody who could stand up to a little ol' single-mindworm assault. Anyway, Yang and I made a truce. I don't remember the details, but I realized that I probably had him crippled, and besides, he had nice bases. So I sent another MW. It needed some experience to grow and I thought it would be good for it to get some exercise. Naturally, the game warned me: "You have a truce with the Hive!" To which I responded "Break Truce."

    It's 2150, I've got 5 bases, 2 of which were captured from the Hive. I've broken one treaty and one truce and destroyed two factions. (Maybe I should write a book called "Memoirs of a Warmongering Whore.") At any rate, here's are my questions:

    1) Will my actions related to Morgan have any sort of effect on trade or diplomacy? He was destroyed in the same turn and move that I broke the treaty, in 2104, IIRC. I'd be very surprised if he had had contact with any other faction.

    2) What about Yang? He may have had contact with the Spartans. I attacked him twice, but IIRC, we did not have any sort of diplomatic arrangement the first time. The second time, IIRC, he was destroyed in the same turn that I broke truce.

    3) In other words, does it matter if other factions have the opporunity to tell the world how untrustworthy you are? Do the other AIs automatically know about betrayal?

  • #2
    I wish the game was that cool. But no, your reputation goes down regardless if your actions are seen by others or not.

    A low reputation means that the AI is reluctant to deal with you. They'll tend not to treaty/truce/pact/trade tech with you. When they do treaty or truce with you, they are quick to break it, sometimes the very next round.
    "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
    "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
    "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
    "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

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    • #3
      Dagnabbit! Oh, well, I'm guessing it will have been worth it to remove both Morgan and Yang so early.

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      • #4
        It is DEFINATELY worth getting rid of Yang. Morgan not so much. Yang is a constant thorn in the side. Being he was that close, that early, he would have certainly slowed your progression down. He spreads like Lady D, and he fights like Miriam.
        "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
        "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
        "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
        "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

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        • #5
          True. In a perfect world, I'd have waxed Yang and Miriam right off the bat. In any event, I was glad to see Yang out of the picture.

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          • #6
            My advice is to not worry about your reputation. As your empire gains supremacy, diplomacy with you rival factions will avail you less and less anyway, especially if you're not of a mind to give away everything in the store.

            Also, with your ultra-low base size, you won't be likely to pull down much commerce income anyway.

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            • #7
              Diplomacy = stick and bigger stick with nail in it
              Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CEO Aaron
                My advice is to not worry about your reputation. As your empire gains supremacy, diplomacy with you rival factions will avail you less and less anyway, especially if you're not of a mind to give away everything in the store.

                Also, with your ultra-low base size, you won't be likely to pull down much commerce income anyway.
                Iagree with ceo aaron. Once you are the game leader, the AI will almost never trade with you anyway regardless of your good or bad reputation.

                and if you have no trade, there is no real harm in nervestapling those bases . once that is done, a little nerve gas works just fine
                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                • #9
                  Are you saying not to worry about reputation in this situation, or do not ever worry about it? Granted there comes a point at which you just don't need to worry it. I've never traded much in SMAC anyway, but then again, I've never (quite) so callously disregarded two diplomatic agreements in such short order . . .

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                  • #10
                    Don't ever worry about it. You soon become too powerful so the AIs won't like regardless of your reputation.
                    SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
                    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Illuminatus
                      Don't ever worry about it. You soon become too powerful so the AIs won't like regardless of your reputation.
                      Almost IMHO-- I only care about reputation in the early game when playing solo. Its such fun to have the AI trade you a bunch of techs because you are noble the turn before you rob all the AI of the rest of their techs and then cash 3-4 artifacts for tech to take a lead they will never narrow and attack your victim

                      Noble to ruthless in 3 easy steps
                      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aabraxan
                        Are you saying not to worry about reputation in this situation, or do not ever worry about it? Granted there comes a point at which you just don't need to worry it. I've never traded much in SMAC anyway, but then again, I've never (quite) so callously disregarded two diplomatic agreements in such short order . . .
                        My advice would be to never worry about reputation. Playing fair with the AI just slows you down. What DOES matter is your record on atrocities, including nerve stapling your citizens, which can lower your clean mineral cap and make rival factions unwilling to become submissives once you've beaten them.

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                        • #13
                          Then again, you may be one of those rare types that enjoys roleplaying... besides, any handicap can only make solo play more interesting.

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                          • #14
                            No, I prefer winning.

                            I had just never spent much time or energy in trading in SMAC and just recently got Civ 3, where I have discovered that reputation can play a huge role in trading. So I thought I should check with better players and I to see if I was missing some key element of the game here.

                            Thanks to all for the info. Back to warmongering!

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                            • #15
                              Frankly, SMAC is rather boring for me without role playing. It would have become shelf-ware around 2000 or so without the back story, which is irrelevant if there isn't some element of role playing.

                              What is sad is that the penalties for atrocities are so minor and the advantages extreme. For instance, I'd like to see nerve gas have no offense bonus - only the civilian deaths. That would take out much of its utility and make taking the basted city less worthwhile. Or have it later in the tech tree, or part of the tech tree that the blood-makes-grass-grow crowd doesn't like. As it stands you are meat if don’t get on the atrocities bandwagon in MP.

                              Hydro

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