Dedicated SMAC forum/website collaboration project

Greetings, CFC user Pasi Nurminen here...

Just like the title says, why don't we give it a shot? We can, if we work together, collect together this great game's fragmented community back into one great site. This game is slowly dying, and there's no dedicated SMAC forum out there. Those that do exist are subforums (ie, here) and most are dying. SMAC sites are slowly falling off the web, AC Argentina is gone, and the networknode rarely updates anymore.

Let's take a shot at reuniting this game's community. We can build an active site in time if we put the effort into it. Who's up for it?

List of CFC users in so far:
Pasi Nurminen
Truronian
Empiremaker

List of Apolyton users so far:
???

[Maniac]

SMAC isn't a subforum here. It was on CFC though until recently. So I'd suggest you just all move to here, where SMAC is still the most active, despite of course steadily decreasing activity.

If you want a third site, I'd recommend CGN with also a good SMAC section.

https://www.civgaming.net

[Hydro]

Although I appreciate the thought, I'm not terribly interested in abandoning Apolyton for another SMAC site - although I do wish all SMACers well, of course. I've been at Apolyton since 1999 and am very comfy in the close, friendly, and (for an older game) lively community.

Hydro

[Pasi Nurminen]

Originally posted by Maniac
SMAC isn't a subforum here. It was on CFC though until recently. So I'd suggest you just all move to here, where SMAC is still the most active, despite of course steadily decreasing activity.

If you want a third site, I'd recommend CGN with also a good SMAC section.
www.civgaming.net

How isn't it a subforum? Apolyton isn't dedicated solely to SMAC, and it's far behind it's Civ content in activity.

[vyeh]

I agree with Maniac. There are actually five SMAC fora on Apolyton: AC-Democracy Team Game, AC-Multiplaying, AC-Fiction, AC-Creation|/Civ4-Alpha Centauri, AC-General/Help/Strategy. Apolyton's main forum page lists SMAC as a major category - the same as Civ IV. Contrast that to Civ Fanatics which lists SMAC under the major category "Other Games".

Maybe you mean there isn't a website solely devoted to SMAC. I'm not sure that creating a website devoted solely to SMAC is going to increase the activity level. There may actually be an advantage to being on a website that caters to CivIV (especially if there is an AC mod to CivIV). SMAC is really a continuation of CivII and many elements of SMAC were incorporated into CivIV. I suspect there are gamers who are interested in both CivIV and SMAC.

I only found out about Civ Fanatics when bluetemplar posted a list of active SMACX fora on May 14. He was concerned that the fragmentation of fora was aggravating the problem of fewer SMAC players.

I think FURTHER fragmentation might create further aggravation. While I now have both Civ Fanatics and cgn bookmarked and registered with both, it is much easier having the conversation in one place.

My experience with Apolyton has been very positive. Unless there is something a new website can offer that Apolyton does not, creating a new SMAC site serves no purpose.

If CFC SMAC gamers are not happy with CFC, they should try Apolyton. Any new site starts with one huge disadvantage -- the lack of archival material from the time when there were a lot more players.

[Illuminatus]

SMAC is not a subforum, it is a section here that has five subforums.

CFCers, move in.

[Chaunk]

Originally posted by vyeh
If CFC SMAC gamers are not happy with CFC, they should try Apolyton. Any new site starts with one huge disadvantage -- the lack of archival material from the time when there were a lot more players.

Excellent post in general, but this point in particullar I just want to highlight. With a game as old as SMAC, so much of the current strategy has been built on literally years of game playing experience. To leave all that behind and merge in a central location seems counter productive.

[Hercules]

In my experience Apolyton is now the central home of SMAC/X

However there is still a large amount of wisdom and experience available at CGN and CFC sites and there are many cross references to both sites here. It would be horrendous if CGN went down with its Academy, though Apolyton ( thru the efforts of Jamski) tried to establish a similar such academy in Apolyton. ( And did very well I might add IMHO).

[Marid Audran]

SMAC has one of the few strong web/forum communities for a game its age that hasn't had an intervening sequel, in the years hence its release, to boost outside interest in the franchise.

Some of the other select few I can think of off the top of my head:

Ultima series fans I-VIII (1981--1994) in the gap before Ultima IX (1999). Many hated Ultima VIII so in a way it was more like a 7 rather than a 5 year gap.

Fallout fans (1997-98) awaiting their precious Fallout 3 (currently one of Bethesda's pipeline projects).

System Shock fans (1994-1999) awaiting their "spiritual heir" sequel in Bioshock, to be published by Take-Two Games.

Sadly, SMAC being a standalone game with a self-contained story, there isn't an obvious window for a sequel and there is no news of an official one in the works. As a community though, all roads lead to Apolyton. Certainly the finest medley of minds I've come across in a gaming board. I don't post terribly often, but I regard many of the denizens here as comrades. I can't think of another gaming forum that has the logical veracity of a Google or Blake, the literary good humor of a Hydro, the madcap enthusiasm of FrankyChan, the lubricious perversity of an Alinestra Covelia, etc.

While interest wanes (and to be fair Psi, it's been "waning" since 2003 when fan-fic & mod creation seriously slowed to a crawl) I doubt it'll ever completely be snuffed out. Such is SMAC's enduring appeal. I was a baby-faced college freshman when the game was first released, some person only remotely connected to who I am today it seems, but both Marid Audrans are still in love with this game!

CGN and CFC? Who are they? All roads lead to Apolyton. 'Tis the be-all end-all for SMAC gathering these days.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Marid Audran
SMAC has one of the few strong web/forum communities for a game its age that hasn't had an intervening sequel, in the years hence its release, to boost outside interest in the franchise.

A testament to how great this game is!

Originally posted by Marid Audran
Sadly, SMAC being a standalone game with a self-contained story, there isn't an obvious window for a sequel

I will disagree with this statement. The following is what I think is an obvious "window" for a sequel:

Backdrop: by MY 2473, several Factions have established themselves as the dominant forces in the Alpha Centauri solar system. Planet Busters, Drop Units, helicopters armed with Nerve Agent, and growing hordes of native lifeforms make it clear that, with a single spark, Planet could very well go the way of Earth, and erupt into devastating global warfare!
In these most ominous of times, several minor factions discover the wreckage of a Progenitor interstellar spaceship on the farside of Nessus. In utmost secrecy the Factions agree to pool their meager resources and reverse-engineer the alien spaceship, hoping that by using the interstellar drive they can find a new home, free from the dominion of the dominant Factions on Planet.
After much discussion, the Faction leaders agree that their destination is to be an Eden-like planet labeled on the salvaged Progenitor star charts simply as “Colony: Failed”.
By MY 2492, 1,000 years after Columbus made his historic voyage, the spaceship Santa Maria is ready, and the hyperjump is made to the Beta Lyrae solar system.
However, upon arriving in-system, the spaceships sensors indicate that the planet chosen for colonization is not the pristine Garden of Eden listed in the ancient Progenitor database, but an eroded wasteland, showing only brief glimpses of what this planet must once have been like.
Discouraged by this turn of events, a council is called, and it is agreed that another promising solar system is to be chosen for the purpose of colonization.
Just as the Progenitor-cloned hyperdrive is being activated, a strange alien spaceship materializes in the space above you, attacking your spaceship and sending it into a decaying orbit around the planet below, known as Beta Prime.
Now, armed only with what you could hastily salvage from the spaceship, you must begin anew on the former Progenitor colony planet of Beta Prime!

The following are some of the hilights from this:

1. The minions of Planet would be replaced by the Alien race that destroyed the Santa Maria. Fungal Towers would become Alien cities (complete with Air Defenses and ECM bonus to inhibit speeder attacks). IoDs would become "floating cities", and the Sealurk would become an attack submarine complete with Marine Detachment capability.

Backdrop on the Alien species: Background on the Kra-Lek: the Kra-Lek are actually a polyglot of species, each controlled by two parasitic organisms that act as each individual’s brains, with the Kra serving as the consciousness, and the Lek governing those tasks that fall into the realm of the subconsciousness. Because the Kra-Lek Empire has encompassed many solar systems, and thus many varying environments and species, the Kra-Lek’s parasitic ability to control other species allows them to become masters of many disparate domains.
At their pinnacle, the Kra-Lek were masters of all they surveyed, engulfing an empire spanning hundreds of parsecs. Now, by MY 2492 in human reckoning, the Kra-Lek are a beaten race, their empire on its knees. Massive armadas of enemy spaceships are bearing down on every Kra-Lek border, with revenge and retribution in store for the Kra-Lek……
However, the Kra-Lek have one last hope. Many years ago they had enslaved a race that had discovered the ability to open interdimensional portals, allowing them to explore their homeworld as it appeared in another reality. For years this technology lay dormant, with only a brief surge in interest when a strange alien race attempted to colonize the Kra-Lek homeworld in this alternate dimension, and it was determined that the aliens should be "removed"....
However, as the Kra-Lek’s fortunes waned in the ensueing years, and with the realization that that their species would most assuredly be exterminated for their crimes, the Kra-Lek began desperately pouring resources and energy into developing the technology for moving the remnants of their civilization into this alternate reality, where the Kra-Lek could begin anew, safe from the avengers bent on their destruction.
Several years have passed since the Kra-Lek have initiated this program. Many permanent colonies have been established in the alternate dimension, and flora from the homeworld have been seeded and taken root, naturally spreading across the face of the planet that is to become their new home. In the space above, sensors have been placed, with specially equipped spaceships of the Home Guard ready at a moments notice to teleport into the alternate dimension, to protect their burgeoning new home from any intruders…..
The year is now MY 2492…….

2. The Interludes of Planet would be replaced by the story of the investigation into who these aliens are and why they are attacking your settlements, as well as how they are just magically "appearing".

3. Instead of the random events that occur throughout the game (Planet Blight, Prometheus Virus, Network Node overloads) these could be blamed on "Alien Probe Teams". Events such as hail storms or solar flares could be blamed on incursions by the alien space ships.

I'm at work right now and don't have all my notes handy, but I guess what I'm trying to emphasize here is that this is just one example of a viable sequel, and that I do believe there are windows of opportunity for a sequel based on others ideas as well!


D

[Aabraxan]

My two cents worth.

I spend some time here and some time at CFC. My impression is that CFC has some very active fora. It's SMAC section, however, is not one of them. I've started spending some time over there because I just got Civ 3 and the Apolyton Civ 3 forum just isn't all that active. That said, I find the Apolyton SMAC forum to be much, much more active and helpful in terms of strategy for beginning players, compared to the CFC SMAC section. Also, the comments above regarding archival material are very, very true. Good articles and discussion thread provide great insight into what is, for some of us, a brand new game.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Marid Audran
Fallout fans (1997-98) awaiting their precious Fallout 3 (currently one of Bethesda's pipeline projects).

I am one of them.

Sadly, SMAC being a standalone game with a self-contained story, there isn't an obvious window for a sequel and there is no news of an official one in the works.

Like Civ 2, Civ 3 or Civ 4, there can be a remade, updated version that could expand the self-contained story. A window for a sequel is the least of our troubles.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
Like Civ 2, Civ 3 or Civ 4, there can be a remade, updated version that could expand the self-contained story. A window for a sequel is the least of our troubles.

The changes in a remade, updated version fall into the following categories:

(1) Fixing bugs & exploits
(2) Rebalancing the game (e.g. "fixing" ICS ala Civ IV, AI that can use crawlers or crawler limitations)
(3) Expanding limitations (e.g. being able to see more than 15 supported units in the base screen, stack movement)
(4) Better graphics (e.g. easier to read messages) and sound
(5) Changes making (micro-) management easier
(6) Adopting well-received changes from Civ III, Civ IV and other more recent 4X games
(7) New society effects (e.g. how about changing the "efficiency" in harvesting nutrients and minerals) or new base facilities or new secret projects (i.e. expansion of the basic framework)
(8) New game mechanics that advance the art of 4X games.

While there may be some discussion about the specifics in (1) - (5), I would imagine most forum posters would agree on the general benefit.

(6) & (7) would have more discussion, but what is the point of an update if you only clean up SMAC.

The most interesting changes fall into category (8). If the changes are good, that would persuade me and others to purchase and play it. If they are not, it could destroy playability.

There are some hints in the alphax file of directions not taken (e.g. along with nutrients, minerals, energy, there is also a column for psi which is always zero).

I'd like to see some of those directions in a remade SMAC.

[Hercules]

You make good points vyeh.

Can I just mention that some of the latest browser based free MUDs are getting close to Smac/x 2.

Elements:

Alliances (factions) but not limited to 7 or 14.

3 resources. materials ,energy, nutrients.

Various weapons, armour, space ships spies/ probes, transports, battlecraft, research. But No SPs of yet unless levelling counts.

Various means of production / growth.

However the Muds do not allow (as yet) for the equivalent of individual TCP/IP games.
In the age of direct dial up and 56 whatever, Pbem ruled but with widespread broadband take up, somewhere between Pbem and TCP/IP should be possible.

There are limitations with the Muds, (multi accounts/cheating) and no story or final victory (military, economic, cultural or transcendent); also joining the game at different times/stages is a problem but I wonder is this an avenue for future Smac/x evolution.

It is not quite turn based but say participants in a sub game could agree some rules and turn play limits: if you miss a deadline then faction defaults (set by you) kick in.

Just a thought.

[Hydro]

I will also disagree that SMAC/X is a closed story with few likely sequels. While the 1999 story is self-contained and compelling, there are any number of likely sequel possibilities (some of which have already been discussed):

· Journey to Earth (which is hinted at in some of the epilogues)
· Colonization of other planets after Chiron is dominated
· Meeting the Progenitors or their descendents – degenerates, offshoots, slave races (many possibilities) - as humanity expands among the stars
· Prologue – the Great Spasm of Earth, and how the survivors adapt – and learn to live with the elusive and deadly aliens. Did the Progenitors cause the Great Spasm? What ever happened to the Unity colony ship, and will they come to save poor blighted Earth?

The possibilities are only limited by one’s imagination…