looking at C-C-B approach

[dmm1285]

Is condensor-condensor-borehole really the best approach for specialist bases? After all, 56 terraform turns is a lot to finish one base. Let's look at what we get for that time:

w/o recyling tanks: 10 nuts, 7 mins, 7 energy
with recyling tanks: 11 nuts, 8 mins, 8 energy

The first problem that we see with this approach, is the odd number of nuts with RT. If you don't plan on building them in all your bases, this is not such a big deal. But what if we used condensor-farm-borehole instead?

w/o recyling tanks: 9 nuts, 7 mins, 7 energy
with recyling tanks: 10 nuts, 8 mins, 8 energy

You can still popboom to size 5, and you've paid ~50 ec for 12 terraform turns, even without the extra min and enery, that's a decent deal.

What about boreholes? Sure, everyone loves boreholes, but 24 terraform turns is a long time to spend making them, What if we just planted a forrest instead? Let's look at condensor -none(rainy rolling)-forrest strategy

w/o recyling tanks: 9nuts, 4mins, 2 energy
with recyling tanks: 10 nuts, 5 mins, 3 energy

So for 1 nut, 3 mins, and 5 energy per base less, you can save 36 terraforming turns! With the traditional set up, you have an extra specialist per base (2 worked squares vs. 1) However, any base with a rocky square is going to be working zero squares. Let's take a quick loiok at conensor-farm-mine serup

with recyling tanks: 10 nuts, 6 mins, 2 energy

The main drawback of the borholeless approach is you are earning less raw energy per base. However, you can get many more bases in pop boom position much faster. Also, it looks nicer.

One final not, I'm not saying never build boreholes, but I think they are a lower priority and should be started on after each base has its own consndsor (whcih might take a while if you are ICSing)

[CEO Aaron]

Well, it seems to me that the former turn investment from producing a borehole is very well rewarded. 12 factors of production, to use Vel's turn, for 24 turns of former work isn't a bad deal at all. I absolutely agree your nutrient operations should precede your boreholes, but it seems to me that a rocky/road/mine is producing 4 factors of production for 8 former turns, which means they have a similar yield for time invested. Also, your analysis overlooks one point, and that is that real-estate isn't free. More bases with less production will get off the ground quicker, but also will be harder to defend.

I do think there's merit in your idea of putting off your second condenser, but ultimately your formers WILL run out of things to do, and that's when, you'll want to backfill those additional condensers, since with the advent of satellites, you'll be getting an additional population for every nutrient you harvest.

[dmm1285]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
Well, it seems to me that the former turn investment from producing a borehole is very well rewarded. 12 factors of production, to use Vel's turn, for 24 turns of former work isn't a bad deal at all. I absolutely agree your nutrient operations should precede your boreholes, but it seems to me that a rocky/road/mine is producing 4 factors of production for 8 former turns, which means they have a similar yield for time invested. Also, your analysis overlooks one point, and that is that real-estate isn't free. More bases with less production will get off the ground quicker, but also will be harder to defend.

I do think there's merit in your idea of putting off your second condenser, but ultimately your formers
WILL run out of things to do, and that's when, you'll want to backfill those additional condensers, since with the advent of satellites, you'll be getting an additional population for every nutrient you harvest.

My problem with boreholes is that there is a limited time worth making. Doing them with WP befiore mineral restictions are off is a massive waste of former time (unless yoiu have specials nearby. Once you get spaceflight or fusion, your time is better spent on condensors, expodentionally so with both (One ssquare produces 40 fop for 16 turns terrafroming).

Also, take a look at forests, 4 fop for 4 turns of terraforming, twice as good. Now obviously, boreholes give better production/sqaure, but the difference between 5 mins and 8 mins is pretty small, both bases can rush in 2 turns. the borehole base can rush for 12 ec less (for facilities). Big deal. The engergy is nice, but a forrest can feed half of another specialist. Bottom line, I like boreholes, but rarely get them into play when they make a difference in the game. One more note: on mines, I would actually prefer not to build them, but 2 things make them better than boreholes:

1) You bascially have to, 4 mins for 8 turns isn't great, but smoothing terrain is an even bigger waste of time, I usually put off mines until I have at least 10 condesnors up

2) At least you can crawl mines for an extra specialist, can't crawl boreholes

To use a recent example about the differene between one condensor per base vs. two. In game one, I was pacted with the PK's and was earning at least half of my income with commerce, I built the CBA around 2170. I used 2 condsnors/base strategy. Game two with one condesnor/base, had no contacts until ~2165, let alone pacts, but built the CBA in almost the same year. Also, start 1 was much nicer, included a rocky min special.

I don't find space an issue at all, I allways play on standard maps or smaller, and even then sometimes I think there is too much space. If you do run out of space, (I rarely build THAT many bases), then yeah I'd put a second condenser at a base, but never until every base had at least one.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that with food sats, all you need to reach that magic number 5 is two forrests and a RT, it might be better in the long run to plant 2 forrests and one farm (crawl fsrm) at a base post sats, then rasie terrian to accomodate more and more bases, can still hit 7 pop a base.


All in all, my ideas for this strategy are for Zak mianly, I play morgan completely different