What Next? - Other Games

[BantamBase]

I have just returned to SMAC after a few years forced separation whilst I was under the false impression that the game would not run on XP. Now that I have sorted myself out and got the patches loaded I have remembered just how good the game is. Despite this new bust of enthusiasm though, I'm interested in anyone's opinion on other games of a similar format that I could play. I don't get as much time on the PC as I would like so the game has got to be good. It also has to be at least as good as SMAC as I'm not prepared to waste my time playing something inferior.

Any suggestions? - All gratefully received.

[Kataphraktoi]

Couldnt say, but you could check out this thread in the 'other games forum', asking a similar question.

[Kirov]

I can assure you you won't find any TBS as good as SMAX. And if you will, lemme know. I failed to achieve it some time ago.

Of RTSes, I strongly recommend "Europa Universalis 2", a historical game with a great mixture of realism and playability. Moreover, it has a great advantage that lack of is the SMAX's biggest flaw - a strong player doesn't get increasingly stronger. The bigger your empire, the harder to get it running smoothly and I've heard of people intentionally losing wars to give some pieces of territory away.

Its biggest disadvantage is that its MP can't be played via PBEM, and I have neither time nor external IP to play on-line, so I gave it up.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted biy Kirov
I can assure you you won't find any TBS as good as SMAX.

I would have agreed with you before I tried Dominions II. A very different game game from SMAX but the same where it counts:

1. TBS
2. Highly complex
3. Interesting and engaging world

I honestly can't recommend it enough, it is the game that finally passed SMAX in hours logged.

Of course, it also shares some of SMAX's downsides like micromanagement, but you can't have everything...

[Hydro]

Other games? I tried Civ4 and liked it, but it was unstable on my run-of-the-mill Dell. It is interesting that I’m not willing to go very far to make it work. That is the main difference between SMAC and many turn based games I’ve tried: there is no emotional attachment, and the ‘story’ isn’t engaging. Now I really don’t care and Civ4 is shelfware.

Other games that I go back to are Birth of the Federation and various incarnations of Space Empires IV. BotF is ancient (the same vintage as SMAC), and SEIV will be replaced soon even if it is still for sale. SEIV gives lots of options like SMAC/X, and I particularly like the Star Trek Mod.

In the end I’ll keep SMAX, though, and will likely keep old creaky computers when newer ones finally are unable to support obsolete SMAC software. Perhaps we’ll be lucky and Firaxis will grace us with a sequel, but I’m not holding my breath.

Hydro

[Travelerstein]

Well for Sci-fi flavored TBS you wont anything out there imo, Moo2 is good for a change of scenery once in a while. The civ franchise has lost whatever charm it might have had and has been running on interia alone since CiV2. I have heard good things about Europa Universalis series but i cant say personally as I have not tried them myself.



Theres a very nice wiki on our AC btw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

"In the end I’ll keep SMAX, though, and will likely keep old creaky computers when newer ones finally are unable to support obsolete SMAC software. Perhaps we’ll be lucky and Firaxis will grace us with a sequel, but I’m not holding my breath."

Odd comment there. My totally modern system runs AC just fine and unless Windows changes completely to .....what would you call it? Non-PC based architechture? Why would you feel the need to keep some ancient pc around to play this game, now or in the near future?

[Hydro]

PC architecture and the software that supports it will change. I have a box of late 80s and early 1990s computer games that will not run or even load. Computers back then were still PCs and still ran very early Windows (DOS based, to be sure). Can any of them run on one of today’s computers, or even my old Win98 laptop? Nope. Even the emulation from XP offers is no hope. Unless I find and can nurse back to health an ancient 286 or early 386 I’ll never get to play SimEarth or the original Populous again. It’s too bad I gave away my old grad school XT (I was the stud muffin of the whole geology department! I had an XT!)!

There will be a day when SMAC will not longer work on a ‘modern’ PC. We’re lucky that Firaxis was thoughtful enough to offer an XP patch to increase the number who could run SMAC on XP. Maybe there may even be programmers that can patch their way to keep the old games going.

Prepare yourselves. The day will come.

Hydro

[#endgame]

For me and my obsession with old dos games, that day is already here. It's a rare dos game indeed that will play sound under windows, and rarer still are sound drivers for dos. Dosbox runs abysmally, too.

[Kataphraktoi]

Hydro, defeatist attitudes never get you anywhere. by closing your mind and stating a percieved fact, you make it impossible to overcome that obstacle.

i have played quite a few ancient games on emulators, including the aforemention dosbox and also their are programs like VMware, which for example can run windows on a linux box or vice versa. with VMware style tech, windows xp should be runable for decades if not till the end of your lifetime. getting those ancient programs you mention to run would be hard, but im sure its not impossible.

[Hydro]

Kataphraktoi,

Defeatist? Maybe. But if so this is a result of my experimentation with a hand full of programs on several PCs, various operating systems, and emulations (which only went back to Win95, as I recall). All of these attempts to get these ancient programs to work spectacularly failed. Even programs from the late 90s seem to be going belly up with XP on some (but not all) systems, and of course there are newer and troublesome programs such as Civ4 that are quirky or DOA. For me this is not a hopeful sign.

Still, my sample set is rather small and my skills limited, and I’m pleased there are other techniques available to resurrect otherwise dead programs. VMware as described by Wikipedia and the home web site sounds promising. I was intrigued that their basic server software is now free (as of Feb 6, 2006). I’ll dig a bit to see if I have to find old copies of ancient operating systems, or if the OSes come as part of the emulation. So perhaps there is hope, even if it will be challenging - and perhaps exceed my pain-and-agony threshold.

Hydro

[Kataphraktoi]

VMware is loads of fun. For example, i could log into my DL account sava , post porn, get ip banned, but then it was just a remote puter running on my server and i log back in as cata on my home pc

Constructive uses are running undamagable servers(and easy to maintain servers) for a variety of things, such as running webmail, which is what my @pembrook accounts are running on.

Its a bit heavy on HD usage though.

[dmm1285]

Originally posted by Hydro
Unless I find and can nurse back to health an ancient 286 or early 386 I’ll never get to play SimEarth or the original Populous again.

simearth can still be downloaded and runs fine in xp

[Travelerstein]

Your basic problem hydro, is not that your defeatist as such, you just dont know what your talking about. Ill repeat it again. AC will NOT become unplayable anytime in the near future. I wont give you a full rundown on how things work, you can do your own research on your own time but heres the short of it. The ancient Dos based games you refer too(and that you seem to think AC is) required just that, DOS to run properly. Windows XP does not support purely DOS based apps-at least not directly. XP's DOS 7 exists only as the command line portion of what is after all-a true GUI OS. Nor does XP support(or require) obsolete memory managment schemes like EMS and XMS. Ancient Games DO require them and XP does not emulte them well, even in compatability mode without a lot of extra work. Additionally, DOS required that devices had to be seperately configured, sound especially. Yes emultors take a lot of the leg work out of tricking XP into running games it was never designed for.


AS for the XP compatability patch, AC ran just fine on my system without-tho I still applied it of course. See this thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=3093248

Ill repeat this part again, UNLESS microsoft where to radically rewite the windows kernel(Vista will not do this-most 16 bit windows apps will contine to function to varrying degress).Microsoft for all its faults, has made efforts to build a lot of backward compatibility into all its windows based OS's, though with 2000 and XP, we could say they mark the beginng of true 32bit+ OS, rendering DOS totally obsolete. 16 Bit backward compatibility has been maintained thro XP and probably beyond.. AC is NOT a pure DOS game (like MOO1), does NOT required Extended memory management schemes or special video or sound configurations. It just doesnt. I expect to be playing this game 5 years from now on windows based systems.. Maybe in 10 it might be a bit of a stretch, but really at that point-i really hope something better is out there. But if you really feel the need, go build a p2 133 with 16 megs megs running Win95B go for it, it will run on that too, but really, Ill just keep playing mine on my XP PRO SP2 P4 3.53, 1Gram with my ATI800XT, runs 256x256 maps flawlessly. Firaxis itself expects this game to run on 64Bit OS's so if there not too worried about it, not sure why you are.

Heres another handy link that might help you out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS

Im not sure why you even bring up AC and XT -based pc's, there is no connection there at all. Maybe if you want to play M.U.L.E. but.....

[Hydro]

I do appreciate the information, and technical clarifications. Perhaps the difference is between interested but unsophisticated enthusiasts verses the technically savvy. I freely admit I that fall in the former category, and my opinions and experience may be representative of this blighted group – for whom programs are ‘dead’ when common attempts at resuscitation have failed.

So I will retract my statement about software obsolescence with a caveat: with proper research and significant investment in time and resources ancient programs can be kept functional. The time and resources, however, are where my ‘pain threshold’ comment applies.

Thx again,
Hydro

[Illuminatus]

dmm1285, linking to that site is forbidden. You will edit out the link.