For the final time: Faction Leader Ranks

[Illuminatus]

I'm not understanding where you want to go with your argumentation

I am basing my information on canon data - stories.

insisting on the stories so much instead of acknowledging the raw necessity of someone with astrogation skills on such a mission - even if only for a failsafe against a computer failure.

If you reread my post you will see that I agree that such a person would have to be essential for a such mission. But our opinions are not SMAC canon.

Current setup of SMAC canon does put Svensgaard only as a failsafe, and downplays his importance significantly, since in canon he is not featuring prominently in a case when his exact skills would be required. There is no other conclusion than that his usefullness is only as final failsafe (I mentioned that too), since crew and ship manage to get quite well without him in a crisis.

But you definitely overestimate the ability of astonomy to locate planets in other solar systems (at least by today's standards)

It is correct that I overestimate the ability. Key word is today - today we may not be able. But Unity is being launched in future.

Chiron is discovered approximately 22 years in future which gives more than enough time to perfect ways of detecting terristrial planets, especially those in our neighbourhood.

The future technological ability is obviosly far more advanced as the ship itself employs a working Bussard ramjet drive (although their usefullness has been theoretically shown to be doubtful and impractical) and there is even mention of antimatter rockets for manouvering help.

and to propel something at such a perfect trajectory,

I already mentioned computers are more able to adjust course without the need for human correction.

Also, chemical composition of Chiron can be discovered by analyzing the spectrum of Alpha Centauri's light as it passes through Chiron's atmosphere when it passes between the sun and the Earth - but this is by no means enough data to reveal a precise location of the planet.

And what did you think I implied how was the composition discovered? I would say that thirty orbits of Chiron are enough for astronomers to establish a sufficiently precise location of the orbit that would not require ship to blindly dive in the Alpha Centauri system.

Indeed, Chiron has a stable orbit around Alpha Centauri Prime so there is no need to trouble with irregular orbits.


And to cut this discussion, a quick summary. Both you and I agree that a astrogator would be of importance in a hypothetical interstellar flight. But due to bad setup of SMAX canon, it turns out that an astrogator isn't quite important in ACverse. Canon evidence for that is overwhelming.

Now if I had the chance to rewrite the stories a little bit...

[Corvi #6]

Morgan was a stowaway???? wtf??? Why would a billionaire want to stowaway on a super dangerous mission like this?

Besides, couldnt he just have made his contribution to the UNITY budget dependant on his being able to go?

[Archaic]

An Astrogator would be like a Navigator, not a Pilot. In modern naval vessels, it's not the same person spinning the wheel who charts the course, is it? Same difference here. Likely, he would have been woken up at intervals during the flight to make slight course corrections, and be given the authority to wake up crew in an emergency, explaining the high rank, but his authority becomes null and void once they've actually arrived in system. Unlike the others, he has no real special purpose on the ground. His skills were one shot, and useless on the ground.

[Slaughtergaard]

Yeah, makes me wonder. Anyway, Svensgaard would not be useful on the ground, on the GROUND!
With his esperience on water, I think that if everything made out as planned, Svensgaard probrably would be some kind of Commander of Chiron's Fleet

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Corvi #6
Morgan was a stowaway???? wtf??? Why would a billionaire want to stowaway on a super dangerous mission like this?

Besides, couldnt he just have made his contribution to the UNITY budget dependant on his being able to go?

because the earth is boned in the story line. Things just go to ****. as for why he didn't just ask to be allowed to come personally, there is only one flimsy reason I could think of for this: the politicians/higher ups would have seen his desire to go, and thought that perhaps their future would best be served by getting off of earth. the story makes this mission to be seen as something of a joke, and one of the richest men on earth wanting to get off of earth would have had everyone else thinking.

[Lazerus]

damn your avatar whoha; its hypnotic

lol

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Corvi #6
Morgan was a stowaway???? wtf??? Why would a billionaire want to stowaway on a super dangerous mission like this?

Besides, couldnt he just have made his contribution to the UNITY budget dependant on his being able to go?

Morgan predicted that human civilization on Earth is doomed and will selfdestroy itself and unlike Adrian Veidt, he decides to ensure he has a share in the future of humanity.

If he made his contribution dependant, what kind of precedent would he set? Morgan Industries were getting a lot of publicity for their devotion to visionary Unity project, what would be the impact if they were doing it only for their CEO to get aboard?

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Archaic
Likely, he would have been woken up at intervals during the flight to make slight course corrections, and be given the authority to wake up crew in an emergency, explaining the high rank, but his authority becomes null and void once they've actually arrived in system. Unlike the others, he has no real special purpose on the ground. His skills were one shot, and useless on the ground.

A good assumption, but again, it is stated otherwise. Nobody awakes during the 40 year flight to Alpha Centauri. All course correction are made by onboard computers. The cryocells are oneshot deal, and once exited the crew cannot reenter them.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Corvi #6
Morgan was a stowaway???? wtf??? Why would a billionaire want to stowaway on a super dangerous mission like this?

Besides, couldnt he just have made his contribution to the UNITY budget dependant on his being able to go?

My guess is that the bid for the Unity construction contract was his sole this opportunity of going to Alpha Centauri. As the UN wouldn't consider him "appropriate" in any case. Furthermore, what signal would a public person like him give to other millionaires, not to mention the general public. Before you know it, the ship would only be crewed by richies.

[Corvi #6]

But there have always been crazy millionares! Look at that richard branson, i mean PHEW what a LOONEY!

I'm sure Morgan could have 'persuaded' the UN to let him go, and he could have used Morgan Media Co. to spread the word that he'd lost it.

I just don't get why he'd stowaway... and if HE knew the world was boned, why didnt other millionares?

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Corvi #6
I'm sure Morgan could have 'persuaded' the UN to let him go, and he could have used Morgan Media Co. to spread the word that he'd lost it.

Persuade United Nations? No, it doesn't work that way. Future AC United Nations are a far more powerful organisation than the cardbox we know. They defied China when they placed Yang on that ship. Why would they bow to Morgan Industries?

Morgan was ready to jump in and take over the Russian part because he could ensure that he is placed there if he has a hand in construction of the ship, under the guise of visionary collaboration for greater publicity.

I just don't get why he'd stowaway... and if HE knew the world was boned, why didnt other millionares?

Morgan was always a visionary. Besides that, many had doubts the ship will actually reach the Alpha Centauri, they viewed the Unity as political action which was supposed to "unite" the battered planet in a grandiose project.

[Lazerus]

Maybe he'd experienced all the highs and lows on earth and wanted a fresh experience for his decadent tastes

[Leon Trotsky]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
Persuade United Nations? No, it doesn't work that way. Future AC United Nations are a far more powerful organisation than the cardbox we know. They defied China when they placed Yang on that ship. Why would they bow to Morgan Industries?

That's news to me. Yet another similarity between Alpha Centauri and Evangelion...