Does Deidre have a dark side?

[MysticWind]

SMAC leaves the personalities of the faction leaders open to interpretation. Are the Spartans fanatic brutes or possible defenders of a well-armed peace? Are the Morganites vicious economic blood-squeezing plutocrats or simply industrialists with expensively good tastes? Is Yang misunderstood? Could the Believers' faith be moderated (I haven't seen a single attempt to do that in a story, shame on you all)? Is Lal, as in the wonderfully written story "Joe", not simply a peace-lover but also a bureaucratic Machiavelli who's capable of crusading for a final end to crusades on his own?

So I'm wondering, is there any chance that Deidre and the Gaians might have a negative, ugly side, contrasting their usual eco-hippy portrayal? Independently, I couldn't have considered that. However, I got the idea from reading the summary of the otherwise mediocre, run-of-the-mill mod faction the Aardomites from Networknode.org:

War; is there anything more pointless in this life than destroying other life? Sure, the Spartans preach "the right to take up arms," and the Believers talk about war "in God's name." But we have been collected from all over planet and know of the pain of war. From the brainwashing chambers of New Jeruselam to Deirdre's nitrogen experiments, they have seen the bad side of even the most peaceful faction. And we are determined to avoid the mistakes of Earth as well as the mistakes of the present.

-- Keeper Aardom 723
"Critique of Enlightenment"

DATALINKS1
LEADER: Aardom 723
BACKGROUND: Luxembourg, Unity Chief Engineer
AGENDA: Enlightened society
TECH: Choose 1

DATALINKS2
+1 RESEARCH : Brilliant talents.
-2 POLICE: freedom loving
+1 TALENT per 4 citizens: Well educated workers
free colony pod at start of game
Impunity Eudiamonic
Chose one tech as start
Cannot use Police State Politics
85% Techcost Elite researchers from varied backgrounds

I'm pretty sure the author added that bit just to make everyone seem violent in comparison. This doesn't seem like Deidre would do, anyways, more like Zakharov in one of his more biochemist moods. However, I still wonder what sort of evil/atrocity the Gaians could be possibly capable of committing.

I once suggested that the Gaian Temple hid horrific rituals hinted in my retrospectively-low-in-substance story, Gaian-AXIS War. I got bad reviews from that. My idea that the worst the Gaians would possibly do is to allow mindworms that do not attack their faction free on their own. Instead of exterminating deadly boils, they simply allow them to live peacefully on Planet and go attacking other factions. When other factions protest, the Gaians reply that they don't want to attack the ecosystem, and next thing you know it there's a human war. It's not exactly as evil as blood sacrifices to Chiron, though.

[Chaos Theory]

Re: Does Deidre have a dark side?

Originally posted by MysticWind
Could the Believers' faith be moderated (I haven't seen a single attempt to do that in a story, shame on you all)?

You haven't looked very hard. I've seen this multiple times, and I haven't read that many SMAC stories.

[wgabrie]

I think the Gaians can have a dark side with those nasty Mindworms. Mindworms are an atrocity in their own right. And you can send them loose on unsuspecting populations.

Also, If you play with the story blurbs on it sometimes follows the progress of controling the native life 'at the cost of untold human lives.' I don't know if the Gaians acually march people into the fields as bait for the worms, or, if they choose to collect samples instead of enacting leathal measures that might save lives. But you can play on the theme of "nature come first," think extreamist P.E.T.A. or Eco-Terrorists.

[One_more_turn]

Deirdre will go against you if you are the most powerful faction.

Everyone is an ******* in SMAC, except for Zakharov when you are running Knowledge.

[Kataphraktoi]

Re: Re: Does Deidre have a dark side?

Originally posted by Chaos Theory


You haven't looked very hard. I've seen this multiple times, and I haven't read that many SMAC stories.

Agree 100%. (Which is a big statement huh? )

Regarding gaians as being nice...i think at some point most every leader is tempted to cross the line and say they are doing something, anything, for the ''good'' of the people...i think she could be just as scary as anybody. see; senator palpatine

[Hydro]

Each of the factions are lead by fanatics, and fanatics can and will do unpleasant things. This includes the Gaians. After all, if you believe your core beliefs are threatened then your choices are submitting or fighting, and you’re more likely to fight if you believe strongly. Most of my Deirdre’s have been aesthetic, but she could also be militant and…hard. Planet is a difficult place, and six other fratricidal human faction leaders do not make it safer or more comfortable.

MysticWind - the Believers do have a good side. I refer you to Godwinsons's Hope (go the the SMAC Fiction forum, and look for it under Chiron Information Archives, it's listed under Hydro - sorry I couldn't get a hyperlink to work). This short story also portrays the ‘good’ factions at their worst, including the supposedly warm hearted Deirdre.

Hydro

[Whoha]

yea, the mindworms that burrow painfully through people might just be their darkside.

[Lazerus]

Well Deirdre took joy when one of her own talents had her mind crushed by planet as she was feeling jealousy at said target. No doubt she can be twice as cruel to people she actually hates.

[Commy]

If I had to rank the SMAC leaders from least to most humane, I think it'd go like this...

1. Yang
2. Zakharov
3. Santiago
4. Morgan
5. Miriam
6. Dierdre
7. Lal

Although I have to say, I really like the Univesity and absolutely despise the believers...

[Marid Audran]

Interesting set list, Commy. Though, in terms of society that factional leaders would probably run, Zakharov's University would have to rank higher on the "humane" and "civil rights" list.

[Marid Audran]

As far the d-a-a-a-arrrrk side of the factional leaders, Michael Ely explored Dee's case a little bit in "Dragon Sun," the second book in the trilogy of SMAC novels that were published several years back (he also wrote the serialized "Journey to Alpha Centauri" story which was released during post-production period of SMAC's development). That book portrayed a Deirdre who was a little bit unhinged, more than a tad paranoid, frazzled by the demands of 100+ years of leadership made possible by cheating death through bio-engineering, and more than willing to engage in a little worm-control guerilla warfare against Morgan enroachment, even against the wishes of the UN Planetary Council (not that they could prove it was Gaian empaths behind the worm terrorism, you see...). So, peaceloving eco-green democracy which sounds ideal on paper could be eco-green democracy...AT ALL COSTS given the geopolitical climate.

[Kataphraktoi]

That book had everyone dehinged.

Not to be too cynical, but I gave up after the first novel. IMHO, the author wasn't just subltly showing his bias, rather he was hitting us in the face with a frying pan labeled "my beliefs".

The U.N. the only faction with honor and integrity? Love for family? The Spartans came off as far worse than Star Trek's Klingons, which it seemed like he was aping. The only religious faction showing up in rags, starving and wild-eyed.

QFT. For real smac fiction i recommend anything by hydro or the Spartan Chronicles.

Whoops think thats OT a bit....

[Illuminatus]

Godwinson's Hope by Hydro

[Sperber]

Are any of the SMAC leaders truely "evil"?

They all reflect certain values or motivations that are inherent in all of us and have made it the primary trait of their society. From our individual standpoint, we just judge anything that isn't our own motivation in life as "ugly".

Even Yang's heavily controlled and authoritive society does have its merits if you believe in the purpose of sacrificing your individual hedonistic desires for the greater good of the human collective and do not wish it to be sabotaged by the selfish egoism of uncooperative individuals.

Deidre too can be criticized by her adversaries for putting the integrity of nature before the selfish interests of the human race. She would, for instance, if she were true to that belief, not fight a viral outbreak among her population by means of modern medicine. She would probably stand by and watch how many humans, including newborns, die of the plague - until the remaining survivors have developed a natural immunity to it - which is nature's unmerciful way to push evolution forward and maintain an ecological balance.

Plenty would call that "ugly", I bet.

[Hydro]

I generally disliked Ely’s books, and posted my rather acidic comments on that thread. The first book was OK but formulaic, and I thought the end was contrived and out of character. The second was OK. I hated the third and in my opinion Ely got the faction leaders and their reactions to their situation completely wrong, except perhaps for Lal (and then for the wrong reasons) and Santiago (who went down fighting, as she should). Would they really be that insufferably stupid? That blind? So insulated to the implications of their actions to give up all they worked, lived, and died for?

Ely’s efforts in the serialized Unity breakup story were much better, and he did a superior job giving each faction a philosophy that seemed a reasonable basis for what we saw in SMAC, the Datalinks quotations and AI actions. Each treatment was somewhat sympathetic, and all too human.

Much has been said about the faction leaders being around forever. Having a leader for 10 years is bad enough, but a century? Or two? Imagine if Stalin had never died. Or Winston Churchill still pursued his aims. Or if Washington were still around with his post-Enlightenment quasi aristocracy/agrarian mindset. I don’t think any of us can grasp how such a society could fossilize, drift into a foggy paralysis, or wax into fire-breathing paranoia. In other words, become radical or reactionary (or simply irrelevant). Each would bring out the worst in a faction or faction leader, I think.

Hydro