What SMAC fans say about Civ IV?

[NanoDingo]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi


which would be useless anyway,as cumulative turn advantage as there really is no 'modern' era in civ: its the 'clean up' era.

...I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but I'm sure I disagree.
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[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
which would be useless anyway,as cumulative turn advantage as there really is no 'modern' era in civ: its the 'clean up' era.

Clean up era? Ever tried a space, cultural or diplomatic victory? Dominion and military are clean-ups for sure, but that's about it.

[Kataphraktoi]

so you disagree that a competent player on a appropriate difficulty, would not have the game wrapped up by that time?(modern,im assuming,would be when tanks or planes start showing up?or ingame tech status) so that his\her actions impact the outcome of the game?

[GeoModder]

Guess I'm not competent yet then.
But in all seriousness, doesn't the same apply for SMAC for any competent player?

[Kataphraktoi]

i guess we are even then,since i cant plot a simple search pattern afterall.( )

Making games a lot shorter and rendering Techs higher than Quantum Power virtually useless

my comment was a resumption of the age-old problem of how to make the late-game things usefull and relavent. by the time late game stuff apears,its over anyway. my whole point was,smac has a funner game in the begining anyway,and the late game is doomed to irrelivency(bah bad spelling)

[Chaos Theory]

The problem with making the late game relevant is keeping the early game relevant. If I do better than you for 50 turns, I should have an advantage, and if I really am better than you, only luck could allow you to catch up.

[NanoDingo]

The game is arguably over by Industrial Automation, a level three Tech.

[Kataphraktoi]

whoops

so you disagree that a competent player on a appropriate difficulty, would have the game wrapped up by that time?(modern,im assuming,would be when tanks or planes start showing up?or ingame tech status) so that his\her actions impact the outcome of the game?

corrected
maybe i should start reading my own posts before submitting them,hmm? probably clears up my stance more.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
so you disagree that a competent player on a appropriate difficulty, would not have the game wrapped up by that time?(modern,im assuming,would be when tanks or planes start showing up?or ingame tech status) so that his\her actions impact the outcome of the game?

Not in Civ4. The AI (even on the medium levels) has an amazing tendency to shoot ahead in the last 50 turns of the game.

I suspect they are cheating (more than we already know about), but I can't prove it. There have been games where I had over a 100 point lead. But in the past 40 turns the ai shot past me in score and won the game (it was a score victory- we ran out of time to build the spaceship or achieve any other victory). The AI is capable of amazing research the human can never hope to match. Even on noble level, the AI is very good at research. They are a powerhouse in the modern era. If you aren't careful, you will lose.

Civ4 is actually better than SMAC in making the late game relevant (at least on the higher levels). As you may have more cities and more productive cities, the AI can still outresearch you and beat you to the spacehip.

[GeoModder]

A 100 point lead isn't that much. Some fancy tech trading or completion of a few culture enhancing buildings/wonders will overtake that easily.

[Kataphraktoi]

Not in Civ4. The AI (even on the medium levels) has an amazing tendency to shoot ahead in the last 50 turns of the game.

i have to concede any point based on late game cIV,as my disk has gone caput and it will be awile to get a replacement.

[Dis]

Originally posted by GeoModder
A 100 point lead isn't that much. Some fancy tech trading or completion of a few culture enhancing buildings/wonders will overtake that easily.

yeah it's not much. In fact we were trading leads every time I discovered a new tech. But in the end, china (can't remember which leader) pulled away from me.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Alpha Centauri games with experienced players rarely make it to 200 turns. Civ 4 has made it to 1000 AD or so after that many, so until we figure out game-breaking tricks, I would expect Civ 4 PBEMs to last more turns. Using the "Quick" game speed should help with this, though I don't know if the game could be squeezed down to SMAC speeds without changing strategies a lot.

You must take into account that with Alliances in C4 the research time is effectively halved as the neccessary science beakers to be allocated to a given tech are shared amongst the allies. etc... thus speeding the game up.

[d=me]

I don't like the civilization series, how can it be the heir to smac? They are totally different. Civ 4 is based on generic and simple concepts (ie, tank, infantry, knight) and smac is a complicated and innovative system (polymorphic software, desigining units etc...). I haven't seen a single game up to now in the world that is like smac and suprasses it in every way.

[Commy]

Well, as far as the AI cheating, I have to agree with that...

I was playing as Frederick, and was by far in the tech lead...I was leading with over 1000 points, and had both the Space elevator and Apollo program before 1900...

Now, I had 9 cities...each city had a "great art" built in it by a Great Artist, and all but one of my cities had an academy built in it by a great Scientist...

Washington had only 4 cities, all smaller than mine in population...I was researching future techs before he built the apollo program....

Even with 3 great engineers, the space elevator, and twice as many cities, I was almost beaten by Washington in the Space race...in fact, he only had one part left to build (which he was building)...

Now, how does an AI on Warlord level, with less than half the number of cities and about 10 techs behind me manage to almost beat me in the space race? I built each space piece as soon as possible in my most industrious cities (7 of the 9 cities built spaceship parts)...yet Washington did the same with only 4? Furthermore, I had the Space elevator, halving all the costs for the spaceship...

Now, that has to be cheating if there ever was such a thing...