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How can I make SP challenging?

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  • How can I make SP challenging?

    I'll start by saying I'm not a hardcore SMAC player. I played a few games of SMAC when I got the game, then I got the expansion and played that a couple of times, and recently came back to the game having not played it for 3 or 4 years.

    Coming back to the game, I played as the Gaians on Transcend difficulty, with a mix of classical and SMACX factions. I had a pretty indifferent starting position, boxed in on three sides and caught in the crossfire between the aliens, and I made lots of mistakes, so the first 100 years were quite hard - by the time the borders firmed up, on virtually every indicator I was bottom of the pile.

    But then from about 2120 onwards it felt like the game was going to let me win. The Spartans who'd been breathing down my neck started getting ground down - once I'd taken a couple of bases they made little serious attempt to counterattack, and by the time I got aircraft it was basically all over for them. I made contact with the other two factions and I managed to trade my way up to a decent tech position. I signed pacts with all the humans, and got most of them to fight the Usurpers, who have now been pushed back to their little starting island. And all the while Morgan (the most powerful human by far) was just gifting me masses of tech, right up to the point where I used that tech to bribe my way to planetary governor (stealing the post off Morgan) and get to third place in the rankings.

    I'm far from in control in this game, but I can just feel that the AI is sliding rapidly downhill relative to me. The once immensely powerful Caretakers attacked me, but their idea of an attack seems to be chucking missiles at units which cost me 10 minerals to build, and they don't even try to follow up with ground forces; also I have the support of virtually all the human factions, who are doing a good job of building up my airforce. The Morganites are still miles ahead of me and they built most of the SPs before I even had the tech for them, but their country is overcrowded and not all that big, while my conquests have given me loads of expansion room.


    When I think about it, most of my games went this way - first 100 years can be a challenge, but by the time the Fusion Revolution comes about, the AI starts stagnating. Does anyone know a way of keeping the AI competitive in the middle and late stages of the game? For example, I'd love to see a good space war, but I've never seen the AI build a single satellite.

  • #2
    One City Challenge.

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    • #3
      Play the SP Challenges over at CGN . Lots of different approaches to try, lots of stoked AI's to battle.


      D

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      • #4
        Also, seek out for Solstice Challenge 2005 in this forum (older threads), where CT(Chaos Theory) has made a very challenging scenario.
        -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
        -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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        • #5
          Be Gaians in Blakes scenario aswell
          Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lazerus
            Be Gaians in Blakes scenario aswell
            THat might be a little much for someone that ISN'T dominating the regular AI
            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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            • #7
              Tech stag and bouble-blind research is also a good way to make things more interesting, also the accelerated start, because it reaches an early mid-game with more balanced factions (each is gifted one SP randomly, each has a few cities and their own tech lines). Also, part of the challenge is taking over your faction and salvaging its economy from some goofy micromanagement choices by the AI (too many mineral-sucking units, too few formers, too little terraforming, wrong base improvements, etc). Think of it as being promoted Planet Year 50 years in or so to take the mantle from the previous incompetent leader who stepped down from office after being unanimously voted against.

              One City Challenge is a definite challenge, one I never liked because damn, your one-build-at-a-time--literally--queue really stresses your faction's resources thin. You live and die by your caravans' ability to farm resources in the field. God forbid Yang's needlejets start to pick them off by the handful.

              Another interesting challenge is the Ultimate Governer Challenge, in which you aren't allowed to build things or terraform on your own accord. Formers must be placed on auto, and your bases must be set to Discover, Build, Conquer, or Explore accordingly at all times (switching a setting is only allowed after you build something). You *can* rush buy and upgrade units, though, and (thankfully) control your own units, but you *must* also adhere to the pre-defined unit workshop models (now one gets an idea of the challenge involved). This challenge is also an eye-opener to the curious on why the AI has such a poor showing in-game.
              "I wake. I work. I sleep. I die. The dark of space my only sky. My life is passed, and all I've been will never touch the earth again." --The Ballad of Sky Farm 3, Anonymous, Datalinks

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              • #8
                Add the following units to the #UNITS Section of your alphax.txt file (note that the sub's marine detachment only works in SMAX):


                Cruiser Probe Ship, Cruiser, Probe Team, Scout, 11, 0, 0, DocInit, -1, 00000000000000000000000000
                Attack Submarine Mk1, Cruiser, R-Laser, 3-Res, 3, 3, 0, DocInit, -1 ,00100100100000000000001100000
                Attack Copter, Copter, R-Laser, Scout, -1, 2, 0, MindMac, -1, 00000100000000000000000000
                Probe Hovertank, Hovertank,Probe Team, Psi, 1, 3, 0, MindMac, -1, 10000100010000000000100000
                SP-88, Rover, Missile, 3-Res, 0, 2, 0, DocAir, -1, 00000000000000000001000000


                D

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                • #9
                  A really great challenge is the Switching Sides challenge. Play as one faction for 50 turns or until you're #1 on the power chart, whatever takes longest. Then activate the scenario editor and switch sides to the weakest faction. Build that faction to #1 and switch again to the weakest faction.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blake
                    A really great challenge is the Switching Sides challenge. Play as one faction for 50 turns or until you're #1 on the power chart, whatever takes longest. Then activate the scenario editor and switch sides to the weakest faction. Build that faction to #1 and switch again to the weakest faction.
                    this is by far my favorite way of adding interest and challenge, and like the governor challenge described above, you see just how poor the AI really is.

                    ACtually the fact that its winnable AT ALL suggests extremly poor AI rescource management since you yourself build the AI up

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                    • #11
                      ACtually the fact that its winnable AT ALL suggests extremly poor AI rescource management since you yourself build the AI up
                      I guess Im just too good a builder.
                      Last time I tried the challenge I got PBed after the 3rd switch (as my 4th faction). I had 1 base at start, 2 when PBed (1 tile away) and both had Flechettes and even those didn't save me..
                      -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                      -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The 3rd switch is the hard. Typically it's a cake walk to get the first faction up to #1, and they also wont have a strong military.
                        Switch 1 will usually be easy (like when an AI is sitting on the jungle doing nothing).
                        The 2rd switch will probably involve some serious military buildup.
                        By the 3rd switch there are 3 super-AI's running around and the odds of running afoul of one of them is getting very high.

                        Technically it's not really winnable, it's more like seeing how far you can take it...

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                        • #13
                          One of the interesting things about switching sides games is that the AI can often take your old faction and run with it in suprising ways. For example I'm playing one now (I quite enjoy them due to fast turns no need to micro a zillion crawlers and formers), I started out as Roze and ICS'd across her island then switched to Domai who had the largest territory even when i switch to him, so one beeline to treefarms and GA pop-boom later he was on top. Then it was off to the Gaians, merely allying with everyone boosted them to like 4rd place.

                          The really interesting thing is that Rose has taken my basic forest terraforming and gone ahead and terraformed LOTS of condensors, easily 1 or 2 per base.


                          Santiago has been doing a sterling job (especially cranking out those impact units), yet I fear her faction will be my next challenge...

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                          • #14
                            Recently I've been playing slowly to make more of a challenge and to keep the AI interesting. You often read threads on 'Poly where such and such a player is happily trading techs with the AI and joining up against the #1 AI in pacts, etc.. I often scratch my head at this: 'How is it that the AI doesn't gang up against you by 2160 or so b/c you are so powerful?'......well, because the player isn't very powerful.

                            It gets quite boring to run 80 bases and have the power graph look like one giraffe and 6 mice. In my last game as a builder-Believer faction this was the case although I had almost no military. So I made 80 5-1-2s / 1-3-2s and put them on 20 transports and made war. The #2 faction, the Gaians, who were set to 'conquest/agressive' had eliminated the Cycon early and were about to finish off the UN. I landed a Unity rover near them to parley for the first time:

                            "Hi, I'm the Believers"

                            "We surrender"

                            Not fun at all! I'd been looking forward to PB wars, but it seems that I was just too strong for Deirdre to consider continuing.

                            Anyways, my house rules for a builder game can be fun:

                            No offensive probe actions till HSA
                            No off-continent offensive actions until Hovertanks/Gravships, or No use of an airforce at all.
                            No tech trading (not as important as the AI won't trade with you much when you're powerful).

                            But those were the rules in the above game which was a cakewalk, so...........

                            Now I'm playing more slowly, building only up to the 2nd b-drone limit (like the AI tends to do on a big map) and not pop-booming at all. And go figure, the AI is more interested in competing with me. So it does help to take some handicaps certainly.

                            Especially fun are:

                            Limited # of bases, like the OCC or perhaps only 'no b-drone bases'.

                            No crawlers.

                            No air-power.

                            No condensor/borehole littering.

                            No probing for techs.

                            Slow games are much more fun. Play in a relaxed or expirimental way. Try sea-bases or defensive-only posturing, etc..

                            My 2 ecs.
                            Aldebaran 2.1 for Smax is in Beta Testing. Join us for our first Succession Game

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                            • #15
                              All of Blake's talk of Switching Faction challenge setups have made me frisky, now I'm going to have to start a game as one for the first time! Wonder how long I'll last.
                              "I wake. I work. I sleep. I die. The dark of space my only sky. My life is passed, and all I've been will never touch the earth again." --The Ballad of Sky Farm 3, Anonymous, Datalinks

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