Who's the worst at ICS

[binTravkin]

Yeah, I think Pirates are (because they need to get to land before even start a normal ICS), followed by Cult (even more ICS-disabling maluses than Sparta: -1econ).

[smacksim]

Who voted for Believers? Explain?

I voted for Xenobananas because there's at least two parts to the question:

Who's worst at doing ICS?
Who's worst at benefiting from it?

For instance, Morgan isn't all that hot at doing ICS (from an industry/support pov. Once he has the credits though he surpasses others), but he benefits from it more than almost any other faction b/c the base energy.

[Kirov]

I say Morgan for -1 SUPPORT.

[Kirov]

Originally posted by smacksim

I voted for Xenobananas because there's at least two parts to the question:

Who's worst at doing ICS?
Who's worst at benefiting from it?

For instance, Morgan isn't all that hot at doing ICS (from an industry/support pov. Once he has the credits though he surpasses others), but he benefits from it more than almost any other faction b/c the base energy.

Smacksim, that's exactly what I had in mind.

EDIT: I forgot to add my reply after quote...

[binTravkin]

Who's worst at doing ICS?
Who's worst at benefiting from it?

Can't one just take sum of both, rating the 'benefit' part higher than the 'do' part in case there are 2 equal factions?

And IMHO there's no use just to do any strategy for fun, just because you can do it. Benefit is all that matters and you will do something if it benefits you, won't you?

[smacksim]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Can't one just take sum of both, rating the 'benefit' part higher than the 'do' part in case there are 2 equal factions?

Yes you can, however with things like cost/benefit or attack/defense you start getting into the realm of apples and oranges again (I seem stuck on that phrase, but in this case it applies). Simply saying that 'It costs a lot for Morgan!' has little to do with its benefit for him if he 'suffers' the cost, however. But it does have something to do with the benefits, if the costs are high enough. And think of comparing a 6-1-1 vs a 1-6-1 (if armor and attack were not actually more comparable at 6-1-1 vs 1-4-1 as they are. But just for simplicity's sake assume they are the same).

For instance, the Believers: Their costs are low in doing ICS. They're damn good at it in fact, maybe the best after Yang. But their benefits are not-so-hot unless you also quickly boom and use specialists. Adding up their cost/benefit, its comparable to Morgan. But why claim that Morgan and Miriam are on an even 'rating for ICS', when their actual methods and purposes are so different?

This is why the question, unless split apart, isn't really all that meaningful as it is.

Originally posted by binTravkin
And IMHO there's no use just to do any strategy for fun, just because you can do it. Benefit is all that matters and you will do something if it benefits you, won't you?

Its a game. Fun IS what benefits me. I think I get what you mean in that actually playing a poor move instead of a better one is difficult against even the lowly AI. But if you want a challenge you really have to either: play for score (yawn, micromanagement galore), or take any one of a number of handicapps. I think you know that, so: Why do you say ridiculous things like this? Nvmd! I'm just pulling your tail binT. Its a rhetorical question.

[Kataphraktoi]

Its a game. Fun IS what benefits me. I think I get what you mean in that actually playing a poor move instead of a better one is difficult against even the lowly AI. But if you want a challenge you really have to either: play for score (yawn, micromanagement galore), or take any one of a number of handicapps. I think you know that, so: Why do you say ridiculous things like this? Nvmd! I'm just pulling your tail binT. Its a rhetorical question.

i believe the idea is to so thoroughly crush me in our 1v1 that i will never again challange him thusly. i could be wrong though. like saying he needs a handicap so i can even compete. personally i wouldnt stake a reputation on beating a lowlife nobody the risk\benefits on bTs move makes no sense to me.

[dmm1285]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Yeah, I think Pirates are (because they need to get to land before even start a normal ICS), followed by Cult (even more ICS-disabling maluses than Sparta: -1econ).

BUT the pirates start next to the jungle a lot, getting that makes them the third best behind the university and morgan

[binTravkin]

personally i wouldnt stake a reputation on beating a lowlife nobody

1.I dont consider you lowlife nobody. Your strategies are above average AFAIK.
2.The challenge call was more because I wanted to show you, not to win you. I have had fun playing 1x1 (or 2x2) before and I thought I could have it again, but with less able faction. Angels seem fun here, Cycon I've tried and consider one of the best if they get PTS (which they can do even against powerful Uni, which will usually go for VW first anyway).

[binTravkin]

BUT the pirates start next to the jungle a lot, getting that makes them the third best behind the university and morgan

That is element of luck.
More often than not there will be circumstances which:
1.Prevent Pirates from finding out they're close to MJ.
2.Prevent Pirates approaching it (fungus, no direct sea access).
3.Prevent Pirates settling it (other faction).

Plus the fact they get no bonuses helping out an ICS and plus the fact they need to build transports to even transport their first CPs to MJ.

[Kataphraktoi]

lowlife nobody

i just watched starwars for the thirtyith time and couldnt help saying it together

how would you prevent pirates from settling jungle if their sitting on it? its ussualy on water so they can always find it(i assume)

i dont see pirates as ICS.why are they even mentioned?

[smacksim]

they aren't in the poll because they are pretty terrible at ICS. So bad that they aren't even included! Still, you can ICS with them. The two times I've done this:

1. When I had a huge continent to myself and could slow-ICS (like Cycon b/c growth).

2. Mid-game when I'd secured the growth SPs and had the ability to terraform in the deep ocean. One can fill a map pretty well with the Pirates, but typically the Efficiency/Growth pains make this an excercize in some futility.

[Sikander]

I voted for the Pirates (aka xenobanana).

[Not Rosencrantz]

What on Earth are the Drones doing there? I always thought they were good at ICSing, what with the massive industry and easy drone control.

[binTravkin]

That's why drones are here.
Still I wouldn't call them the best ICSers, Uni is I think if VW and PTS present.