Coastal Defense

[GeoModder]

ALL units are weak one way or the other. Having an AAA high-armour cruiser escorting the weapon-strong cruisers is a necessity.

[smacksim1]

I do the same thing Geo. Ah, its been a very long time since I did any naval warfare! Airpower just comes too damn quickly, even with tech stagnation. Throwing a couple 8-1-8 noodles at a AAA-3 cruiser is not horrible. Then again, imagine facing a navy of 8-1-7 and 1-5-7 AAA cruisers if that were all you had. (wishes he were in a naval game atm)

[Mart]

There is more to it:

- you invest in coastal bases as points were your trawlers from sea parks gather resources. Loosing trawlers is enough, and when your base with expensive facilities gets busted too, thats a serious drawback.

- such seabase is an entrance point for all other connected by roads bases. then you again choose possibly to have no roads. Notice, that with SMACX mechanics you can hit anything in your range of rovers, worse if ellite. In reality your population does not wait - but damages roads, bridges right away - "Market Garden" operation during world war 2 is a good example of what I mean here. Partial success, coz Allies faild the get the last bridge. IN SMACX you just drive as far as your rovers can using roads. civ3 tried to counteract it by not allowing using roads. not the best method, as it turns out

If you think of it, players still attempt to reach security of their investments. And since sea investments are this much more risky it actually diminishes sea element of the game.

[smacksim1]

The sea element is underpowered and too vulnerable, I definitely agree. Would be nice to have a long naval mid-game, but alas chop/drop comes quick. It is possible to re-emphasize the naval aspect of the game with alphax.txt tweaks, as I did in Aldebaran 1 and 2. There are a few things that come to mind as easy to do without a major modification (we've had this topic before too):

sea sensors: change a single variable in a single line in alphax.txt
sea monoliths
sea bunkers (I can't remember if that it works. I think it may not)
increase sea minerals
push the requisites for airpower much farther up the tree (that's not really complex as it seems. I can show how to do).
decrease the chassis cost for cruisers/foils
bring the fun naval improvements further forward in the tech tree: subs, carriers, ship-capture.
And of course put cruiser probeteams in the basic unit list so the AI builds them.

As to defending vs. the sea, is it really so hard in SP? You must be referencing an MP game I think.

For coastal bases, as others have said, artillery is great. But yes, you do have to micromanage your recon aircraft and sensor net every turn to really be forewarned.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by smacksmack
As to defending vs. the sea, is it really so hard in SP? You must be referencing an MP game I think.

My references were to both since good strategies remain good strategies even if they are a little over-cautious versus the AI.

I actually used the raising land strategy quite effectively in a SP challenge ( created by Chaos theory IIRC)-- My military and expansion plans were northward so I protected my western flank by raising a bunch of land. The dumb AI kep landing troops there which would then walk into a prepared ambush. Going around the land barrier WAS an option

[Flubber]

Originally posted by mart7x5

This is another part here - naval flaws. However if you have 5 tiles away a base yourself as attacker, self-destruct cannot hurt you in a base, then next turn your ship/ships launch a succesful attack, while defender's units are sitting ducks. So when two faction come closer, they kill each other due to fear of such attack possibility.

Or you negotiate a no offensive weapons treaty for the base in question. Thats been my approach with close neigbors. Since each is vulnerable to attack it can be in our mutual interest to agree to this.


I generally don't want anyone within 5 tiles of bases I would at all consider core to my efforts. Generally the only bases want that close are true military outposts-- you know . . . the type of bases that are there to PREVENT people from getting close to the bases that really matter. These outposts are not that valuable except as a military base or as probe targets. If I am behind in tech, its the type of base you leave pretty undefended in the HOPES that someone captures it so you can immediately proberape it


Hmmm-- a game idea--wouldn't it be great if you could designate so many bases as pure military outposts that could have the benefits and facilities of a regular base but

- is immune to probing, tech theft or mind control
-produces no energy or labs
- still requires drone control


I always hated the idea that your most precious secrets could be stolen from a newly founded size 1 outpost on a military frontier

[smacksim]

Thats a great concept Flubber! I can see how a player might have to make the choice: "Should I make a research-capable base and risk x,y,z? Or should I make an outpost?" This would give builders some pause I think.......that is, if their opponents are at all decent at probing.

[#endgame]

SMACKSIM SIGHTED!

Where've you been?

Good to see you around.

[Sikander]

My early game coastal defense consists mainly of a stack of formers who are usually busy making the coast farther and farther away, sometimes burying enemy ships in the process.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Sikander
My early game coastal defense consists mainly of a stack of formers who are usually busy making the coast farther and farther away, sometimes burying enemy ships in the process.

Its extremely effective when you change the landscape. Its funny to see an opponents shipping suddenly blockaded

[The_Reckoning]

Originally posted by Flubber



Hmmm-- a game idea--wouldn't it be great if you could designate so many bases as pure military outposts that could have the benefits and facilities of a regular base but

- is immune to probing, tech theft or mind control
-produces no energy or labs
- still requires drone control


I always hated the idea that your most precious secrets could be stolen from a newly founded size 1 outpost on a military frontier

Yeah, good idea. Bit like Outpost ships on MOO2. Could cost about the same as a command center, and the type of base you choose to found gets 1 free +2 morale facility, and can build that type of unit at full speed, and other units take twice as many minerals.