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  • #1

    Yang and efficiency penalties?

    Hi, I've played SMAC/SMAX for some years now, but have never really played as Yang until the other night. When I did I noticed that I am not appearing to have the negative efficiency penalties for Police State or Planned economy. It's early in the game, but with the +ve's of those 2 with still 0 efficiency this are going pretty well. Does anyone know if this is a poorly documented feature (similiar to the cybernetic not getting -ve traits for the cybernetic future society) or a bug. I'm playing SMAX btw.

    Cheers
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  • #2
    In SMAX (and in SMAC v2.0 and later) the Hive doesn't receive negative efficiency penalties, as you observed.

    This feature is documented in the readme.txt file:

    The Hive now has the "Immunity, EFFIC" ability; Hive never receives negative EFFICIENCY penalties.

    This feature also is described on page 38 of the SMAX manual.
    "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
    -- Kosh

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    • #3
      Thanks for that, I've never actually read the print manual for either game, it just didn't show up in the faction profile in the datalinks so it surprised me. It makes sense though, kinda like the flat efficiency in communism in the Civ games (well not really like that but you know).

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      • #4
        I enjoy playing the Hive, it's a lot different than the builder factions I tend to prefer and at the same time a very strong builder faction itself.
        He's got the Midas touch.
        But he touched it too much!
        Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Petek
          In SMAX (and in SMAC v2.0 and later) the Hive doesn't receive negative efficiency penalties, as you observed.

          This feature is documented in the readme.txt file:

          The Hive now has the "Immunity, EFFIC" ability; Hive never receives negative EFFICIENCY penalties.

          This feature also is described on page 38 of the SMAX manual.

          This is why a true punishing test is to play the Hive with unpatched SMAC -- That high innefficiency really adds to the challenge
          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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          • #6
            Actually I think it was changed in the 4.0 patch...not that it matters, but it made the Hive extrememly powerful even on the original SMAC....

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            • #7
              Hive immunity to efficentency problems was because prior to that the Hives were really bad in the hands of the AI

              Even with it, the AI is still much better at the Belivers and Gaia than Morgon. (AI is much better at implementing "Growth" / "Explore" than Build)

              In fact an easy way to improve AI performance of most factions is to add Growth to there list of priorities.
              1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
              Templar Science Minister
              AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

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              • #8
                I should add growth to Morgan's priorities. as a business he should want to expand. building up internal business infrastructure is important as well. Just once, I'd like to see Morgan be a powerhouse in my games.

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                • #9
                  Even when he is in some of my games he's so bad in a fight that Hive / Believer / Drone with crappy tech and less bases just runs rampant over him and once the numbers spill into his territory he's just plain hopeless.
                  Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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                  • #10
                    Actually, THREE times in a row, Morgan was the most powerful of the AI...never been since that time, but still, don't underestimate Morgan...given the land and the time, he can kill...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Flubber



                      This is why a true punishing test is to play the Hive with unpatched SMAC -- That high innefficiency really adds to the challenge
                      Believe it or not, I played like this farrrr after the patch came out. Shoot I didn't even know the patch existed for some time.

                      Running Knowledge and Green kind of helped me out.
                      Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                      Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                      *****Citizen of the Hive****
                      "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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                      • #12
                        Yes, I remember, back in my virginal days before SMAC addiction, loading up a saved game and then spending the best part of half an hour coordinating my bases so the efficiency hit wasn't tooooooo bad... back in 1998 *sniff*
                        "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

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                        • #13
                          Running Knowledge and Green kind of helped me out.
                          You heretic! Green and Knowledge for Yang?!? It's an insult to the mighty Human Hive!


                          Seriously I've been thinking (back in the days of early SMAC) why to play Hive at all knowing that it's doomed to have low effic.
                          It was kinda weakest faction then..
                          At least I always ended up Hive AI being big in territory but in medieval tech level.
                          -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                          -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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                          • #14
                            I don't know what you all are talking about. Far as I remember, the Hive was always a strong faction.
                            "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                            "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                            "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                            "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
                              Yes, I remember, back in my virginal days before SMAC addiction, loading up a saved game and then spending the best part of half an hour coordinating my bases so the efficiency hit wasn't tooooooo bad... back in 1998 *sniff*
                              didn't smac come out in 1999?

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