Yet another bug in Datatechs?

[binTravkin]

You are still shafted with respect to techs that everyone already has but I guess those should be easier to trade for or steal

There ar major maluses in things you mention:

Trade in: you need something to give. So, in case you turn out in a disadvantaged position and are poor/nothing to trade for, you can quickly have tech parity at no cost once you infiltrate other facs.

Steal: not always you will have a hi-tech enemy and stealing from a friend or "friend" (treatied but probably going to attack you in future) is not always a way to go, especially if you're weak.

So if you feel inconfident about your skills among the other players, take angels, infiltrate early and go on boosting your economy (as you don't need research that much).

[Kirov]

I run some tests again and it seems that Flubber is fully right. Well, it makes Angels nice in MP, but still not as good as I thought (I had no idea about this 'known behaviour').

Thanks guys for solving the mystery. Good luck to everyone playing Data Angels and remember - probe'em ASAP!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kirov
I run some tests again and it seems that Flubber is fully right. Well, it makes Angels nice in MP, but still not as good as I thought (I had no idea about this 'known behaviour').

Thanks guys for solving the mystery. Good luck to everyone playing Data Angels and remember - probe'em ASAP!

Ya it was a shock to many the first time thay saw a tech in 3 factions hands that they didn't get. I'm not saying everybody knew how it worked but it has been discussed on here a couple of times

[Flubber]

Originally posted by binTravkin


There ar major maluses in things you mention:

If you mean "minuses" or problems, I agree. It would be much better if you got all the techs that 3 infiltrated factions had .

Originally posted by binTravkin


Trade in: you need something to give. So, in case you turn out in a disadvantaged position and are poor/nothing to trade for, you can quickly have tech parity at no cost once you infiltrate other facs.

No you won't and particularly you won't in MP. Players will not trade key techs and relying on the TECHSHARE alone means you will be the FOURTH faction at best to get to very important techs

Originally posted by binTravkin


Steal: not always you will have a hi-tech enemy and stealing from a friend or "friend" (treatied but probably going to attack you in future) is not always a way to go, especially if you're weak.

That sounds defeatist. Of course you can steal from your enemies if you can. My comment was merely that if a tech is held by EVERYONE but you before you infiltrate your 3rd faction, its likely a tech that is not hard to get. I always find that you have something that one of the AI wants and will usually in those circumstances trade with the weakest faction

Originally posted by binTravkin
So if you feel inconfident about your skills among the other players, take angels, infiltrate early and go on boosting your economy (as you don't need research that much).

If you are not confident about your skills (particularly in MP) that strategy will ensure you get killed . Real players are much harder to infiltrate than the AI and many go to great lengths to prevent it. . . and if I am playing solo, I really don't want to wait the lifetime that it takes 3 different AI to get to Ind Auto while they get jewels like, poly soft, optical comp, SOTHB etc. I'll research them myself thanks and let them eat my dust.

Frankly, to me thats what the TECHSHARE ability is for . ... filling in those off beeline techs that are a pain in the behind but which are necessary to get to say . . fusion

[bluetemplar]

If this holds true, how will it be handled by CMNs?


Why would it be handled at all?

It was known behavior that you did not get all the techs that infiltrated factions HAD, only techs acquired. If you built the SP or played the Angels, you knew this going in.

Not really, if you only play single player, there is much chance that by the time you build the PDL or infiltrate the factions, you will be ahead of them in tech or at least at the same level.

It's in MP when it becomes annoying : I post here because I just rush-builded The Empath Guild with the Angels and thought lighthearted that it would give me most of the techs owned by the 3 super-AI in the game (that would be about 4-7 techs). How I was wrong!


It's pesky that another player built in the same game The PDL between 2114 and 2123, we are now at 2146, thus he got most of the AI tech... I thought to catch up with him
(And University AI has Hunter-Seeker )

I think I will just get used to that since the CMN can do nothing with it, it would furthermore be fastidious for him - to manually give us techs, if only he could do that...

Real players are much harder to infiltrate than the AI

We're talking about Data Angels here...
They can infiltrate anyone in a record time - before you had the chance to get a probe to defend from - and if at the beginning of the game you plan a 100% sure probe defense you will greatly sap your development...

I'm not an experimented MP player but in the game I'm speaking of, I - or should I say Kirov since I replaced him in the game - Kirov already infiltrated one player, and I was about to infiltrate the two others (and would probably have succeeded as my infiltrators show) when I got the Empath Guild...

P.S.: Kirov, now I understand why among best SP's for Angels, you didn't put The Empath Guild...

[Flubber]

Originally posted by bluetemplar
We're talking about Data Angels here...
They can infiltrate anyone in a record time - before you had the chance to get a probe to defend from - and if at the beginning of the game you plan a 100% sure probe defense you will greatly sap your development...

So what if its the data Angels? If we are next door, sure I will likely get infiltrated but on many maps its an iffy proposition. If I am a bit distant with say a polar type start, its entirely likely I will have a sensor net which will see your probe coming.

I don't go for a "100% sure probe defense"-- For one thing its impossible but I do agree that you only have so many resources-- Thats why in some games, I do get probe-infiltrated-- Players make assumptions and plans based on their location, situation and the other players in the game. I know that if I have a human controlled Angels in the game, I would be making probe detection and defense a priority.

[bluetemplar]

Data Angels = The most Buggued faction of SmacX!