Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Yet another bug in Datatechs?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Yet another bug in Datatechs?

    In my recent duel with Walek I run into a serious problem.

    In a scenario created by Darsnan we have AI's tweaked so that they are incredibly strong. I play Datatech and rather late in the game I recalled one of the traits possessed by Data Angels, which goes:

    ^Gain any tech known to 3 other factions with whom Angels have infiltration: {Wide-ranging covert activities}

    Well, in SP it's a single most useless trait in the game, no wonder I forgot about it.

    Anyway, I got back to the game and quickly infiltrated 3 AI's (all of them had 8 techs not owned by me). According to the description, I should get all their techs instantly. Much to my surprise, I got NOTHING.

    I know what you think: "Angels get only techs researched AFTER the third infiltration". That was my first guess as well. But...

    But in the next turn I got 2 of the techs owned by those factions, and both of them were NOT researched during this turn (I checked the previous ones to make sure).

    I run the tests in the editor. Playing (SP) weak Datatech I gave myself 3 infiltrations, all of them to AI's with about a dozen techs more than me. The results were surprising... I got 3 techs immediatelyin my turn, 2 more in the following one and yet 2 more in the following. But even then it was not all of the techs controlled by the trio infiltrated.

    I could not notice any pattern in that which and how many techs I could steal.

    While it IS true that Angels get EACH tech researched by their victims after the 3rd infiltration, it's ALSO true that they get some techs having been researched beforehand.

    Does anyone have any information concerning this issue?

    If not, could I ask someone to run the tests and confirm/refute my observations?

  • #2
    Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

    Originally posted by Kirov

    Anyway, I got back to the game and quickly infiltrated 3 AI's (all of them had 8 techs not owned by me). According to the description, I should get all their techs instantly. Much to my surprise, I got NOTHING.

    I know what you think: "Angels get only techs researched AFTER the third infiltration". That was my first guess as well. But...

    But in the next turn I got 2 of the techs owned by those factions, and both of them were NOT researched during this turn (I checked the previous ones to make sure).

    Are you certain that the two techs in question were not TRADED at all? I seem to recall any acquisition of a tech by anyone would trigger the giving of the etch to the Angels-- This is a recollection only but I thought it was irrelevent if the tech was researched or traded.

    Easy to check in your case. See how many factions had the tech on the prior turn versus when it was sent to you
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

    Comment


    • #3
      When I played the angels, which i did so extensively, I do remember not getting techs that I thought I should have...indeed, there is a problem, but I don't know exactly what it is...and I am almost positive that trading a tech reactivates the angels ability and the planetary datalinks...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

        Originally posted by Flubber



        Are you certain that the two techs in question were not TRADED at all? I seem to recall any acquisition of a tech by anyone would trigger the giving of the etch to the Angels-- This is a recollection only but I thought it was irrelevent if the tech was researched or traded.
        I checked it. The 2 techs (as well as many others) were owned by those 3 factions already in the moment of the third infiltration. No trade took place. Why I got them in the next turn?

        It is true that every acqusitition of a tech triggers "downloading" it by Angels, but my concern are only those techs acquired PRIOR to the infiltrations. Some of them are stolen, some are not. Any help?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Re: Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

          Originally posted by Kirov


          I checked it. The 2 techs (as well as many others) were owned by those 3 factions already in the moment of the third infiltration. No trade took place. Why I got them in the next turn?

          It is true that every acqusitition of a tech triggers "downloading" it by Angels, but my concern are only those techs acquired PRIOR to the infiltrations. Some of them are stolen, some are not. Any help?
          I'm not doubting you on the 3 factions but did you have a fourth faction infiltrated that might have acquired the techs in question. That was my point. It might even be that the discovery/acquisition of a tech by a faction you HAVE NOT infiltrated would cause the game to check the status of that tech for datalinks purposes. Were there 5 AI in your duel??

          That is one possible explanation of the manner the techs came to you . . . perhaps they were traded to other factions and the acquisition triggered the check. Other than that I don't have any logical reason for the observed behavior
          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

          Comment


          • #6
            I am very interested in this but I can't offer anything more than what Flubber has posted.
            On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation

            Comment


            • #7
              I can only think that another faction (not infiltrated but discovering the tech) triggered the gain.
              On the ISDG 2012 team at the heart of CiviLIZation

              Comment


              • #8
                It may be more like the PDL Secret Project than is documented. With the PDL, you do NOT get the tech unless you have one of its prerequisites.

                If I were a betting man...oops, I am, rather...I would bet that the code for the TECHSHARE ability was copied and slightly modified from that for the Planetary Datalinks and that the need for one prerequisite came along with the copying of the code.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

                  Originally posted by Flubber
                  That is one possible explanation of the manner the techs came to you . . . perhaps they were traded to other factions and the acquisition triggered the check. Other than that I don't have any logical reason for the observed behavior
                  I have infiltrated only 3 factions, but yes, there are 5 AIs on the map.

                  Do you suggest that the from the moment I got the third explanation my special trait works for every faction, no matter if infiltrated or not? That when having three infiltrations, I get every tech acquired by ANY 3 factions in the game? I can hardly see any grounds for that.

                  Originally posted by Mongoose If I were a betting man...oops, I am, rather...I would bet that the code for the TECHSHARE ability was copied and slightly modified from that for the Planetary Datalinks and that the need for one prerequisite came along with the copying of the code.
                  It is not that way for sure. I don't have prerequisites for those 2 techs I acquired. I checked also the editor - datateches can be on the tech level 1 and stille acquire even Homo Superior if it is shared by others.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

                    Originally posted by Kirov

                    Do you suggest that the from the moment I got the third explanation my special trait works for every faction, no matter if infiltrated or not? That when having three infiltrations, I get every tech acquired by ANY 3 factions in the game? I can hardly see any grounds for that.
                    No what I am suggesting is the possibility that the game checks whether there are any tech shares at the time that any faction acquires it. Imagine you have factions A B and C infiltrated and not D and E. Then faction D acquires a tech. The game checks and sees that A B and C all have it and send it on OR the game checks and sees that while D has it , only A and B also have it so at the time of the check you don't meet the criteria and will only get that tech if you meet the criteria at the time the next faction (whether infiltrated or not) acquires it.

                    I haven't tested this so it is just a theory but it might be the way the thing is programmed. Just a thought.

                    Oh and it would stull be advantageous to infiltrate the 4th and 5th since onder my theory, if you infiltrate only 3 factions, you get the techs that are held by those 3 only. If one of those factions lags badly in tech, you may see no benefits
                    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet another bug in Datatechs?

                      Originally posted by Flubber


                      No what I am suggesting is the possibility that the game checks whether there are any tech shares at the time that any faction acquires it. Imagine you have factions A B and C infiltrated and not D and E. Then faction D acquires a tech. The game checks and sees that A B and C all have it and send it on OR the game checks and sees that while D has it , only A and B also have it so at the time of the check you don't meet the criteria and will only get that tech if you meet the criteria at the time the next faction (whether infiltrated or not) acquires it.
                      I checked it and I think you're right, but I have to check it one more time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If this holds true, how will it be handled by CMNs?
                        #play s.-cd#g+c-ga#+dgfg#+cf----q.c
                        #endgame

                        Quantum P. is a champion: http://geocities.com/zztexpert/docs/upoprgv4.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by #endgame
                          If this holds true, how will it be handled by CMNs?
                          Why would it be handled at all?

                          It was known behavior that you did not get all the techs that infiltrated factions HAD, only techs acquired. If you built the SP or played the Angels, you knew this going in.

                          It is a slight improvement if you get a tech already held by 3 factions you infiltrated if some other faction acquires it but overall no big deal . .. you still only get the tech if 3 factions you infiltrated have it
                          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So in summary it seems like:

                            If there are 5 AIs of whom 3 you have infiltrated, you get all tech they research and share between them AFTER infiltration is done
                            PLUS if the 3 AIs have the same tech you don't have at the moment and ANY of them trades it to any third faction the result is you acquiring the tech.

                            It seems like a result poorly planned coding, Im a programmer myself and have had things like this happening with my code - it is just a situation programmers didn't think of, thus now this TECHSHARE ability has a bit weird behavior.

                            But, man, it makes Angels so much more powerful!
                            -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                            -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by binTravkin

                              But, man, it makes Angels so much more powerful!
                              To me, it only meaqns that the techshare ability is a little closer to what it was meant to be. You are still shafted with respect to techs that everyone already has but I guess those should be easier to trade for or steal
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X