Fun Factor

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Alex
SMAC forever!!!

yup

[spartak]

I think you meant smax forever!

[Alex]

i don't own SMAX, so...

SMAC forever!

[Frankychan]

SMAC/X is teh r0xxors!!!11!!one!!!eleven!!!

Seriously though, I have yet to play a game where it teaches ideological and philosophical views in such a subtle way. The game makes you think, not just about the game, but about life itself.

(Deep? Corny? Both? Who cares.)

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Frankychan
The game makes you think

Amen, Brother!

And from the MP perspective why I'd add to that the idea that the the game, thru its myriad playing styles, makes you continually think, no matter how long you've played it, of how to proceed with your Faction in a game. A recent personal example of this would be where I was attacked by an (in my consideration) Elite SMAC(X) player. I found an avenue in the game that perhaps he hadn't anticipated, and because of this I forced him to retreat under my onslaught. Under normal circumstances my opponents attack should have been carried thru, however because of my kernal of knowledge, why my forces carried the day! Even after playing this game since '98 why I have to say that on your turn, you need to pause, think about what you want to do, ensure it makes sense under the new circumstances you are encountering, and then proceed according to what you now think is best......

D

[Dis]

I like this game because as you guys said, you have to think. You don't always start in the same terrain. Terraforming options can be radically different depending on your start position. In civ3 you must mine everything. Terraforming is just boring.

Although I have seen some of you guys ICS maps. . condensors everywhere . I like doing different types of terraforming.

[molly bloom]

It's fun, fun, fun, six years on, and occasionally you'll still happen across something that makes you smile, or that you haven't noticed before, or that'll cause you to grind your molars to enamel powder...


In the main, it works so well because of the depth of thought put into it. and the inherent mutability of the opoosing factions- and the lovely design workshop.

[Commy]

I think they should require all children in the world to play SMAC so they don't all become idiots...

[Net Warrior]

The vast vast majority of children do not become idiots , but I get your point and I couldn't agree more. SMAC/X, like chess, teaches players to plan ahead, if they are to be sucessful. That is an ability that will, no doubt, prove invaluable in their futures.

[waab]

Well I am back again, we come and go, I have never been any great player but for the moment, I am planing to nerve gas Zakarhov before he gets to powerfull...

[Clear Skies]

Originally posted by Net Warrior
The vast vast majority of children do not become idiots

You've never been to Accrington

[Zoetrope]

Nerve gas: one of my favorite weapons against the Progenitors in Alien Crossfire. No unwanted environmental or diplomatic consequence when used against them. Just have to be sure when attacking them that no human ally of theirs is in the target base or stack.

One of the delights of SMAC/X is that there are so many ways of prosecuting a war - and many methods of keeping (and winning) the peace.

Probe teams are so versatile. Brian Reynolds expanded greatly on the diplomat and spy of Civ2. I like to mod alpha(x).txt to allow even more new kinds of units: one of my favorites is the SAM Probe, which I call the James Bond unit. Yang's or Miriam's aircraft bothering you by overflying your territory continually in large numbers? Buy them! Probe teams plus Morganite finances = major clout!

Many players have favorite factions to hate, but (against the AI) diplomatic cleverness can swing almost anyone your way.

Two dangerous neighbors allied? One of them (say the Gaians) constantly firing missiles at your territory? The other (let's say Miriam) scarily powerful but diverted by a difficult war with another great power (eg Yang)? Drive a diplomatic wedge between the allies! How? Suppose Yang has captured a base from Miriam. Divert troops to take the base. Miriam's impressed with your gallant effort in her defence (and will regard you highly for many turns to come). Immediately offer the base to Deirdre. Miriam still regards it as rightfully her base, but Deirdre refuses to return it. (I imagine Ms Skye saying "It was my birthday present. Gollum!") Sudden end of beautiful friendship. And now Dreary has so much warfare on her plate that she quickly forgets about raining death on your innocent citizens.

Yang being a complete pest? Overrunning your land with his troops all the time? Remember Yang is poor. You should be able to buy a swag of his army. (*) Then turn it on his bases. Capture a few of Yang's bases when he was expecting to crush you, and he'll possibly offer to surrender. Now you have a very useful slave who if properly tended can spontaneously destroy your enemies without blame accruing to you.

(You did remember to store up some cash reserves, didn't you? What, you don't have a highly profitable economy yet? Time to borrow from the other factions! I trust you didn't alienate them all by being undiplomatic.)

Trade: OK, you want to see what it's like to play at the more difficult levels. You expect the AI to be unreasonable. And it is. But surprise, surprise! Treat them right with a few free treats at carefully chosen moments, and they start to like you. Next thing you know, they're trading fairly! Sometimes even generously!

Sometimes you need to make demands of pestilent neighbors, to put them in their place. But only do so if you have prepared the rapid deployment option in advance. As with Yang, most factions will turn nice if you smack them down hard and fast.

No guarantees, though - sometimes they get a stubborn mood and won't respond reasonably until dead. If you could analyse their geopolitical and psychological (overt/diplomatic/covert) history in sufficient detail, you might be able to predict their behavior fairly accurately even when they seem to be being irrational.

This isn't one of those games (e.g. MOO, Civ) where the AI attacks just for the thrill of provoking its own annihilation. If they hate you, then something real (and frequently verifiable) has happened to cause it.

It may be difficult to prove that someone has framed you, but if a faction is probe-happy, you can be confident that they'll be framing as often as they can get away with it, so they must be put down (or won to your cause, if they're worth it).

Early on, the AI players often say that you can't buy their friendship, you have to earn it. They mean it, and you have to keep earning it, but once you prove a reliable (and strong) trading partner and/or military ally (as proven by your actions), they will respect you. If you've recently proven yourself powerful, they will behave very differently than if you're a pushover. If you've either earnt or lost their trust, they will reciprocate in kind. In other words, they do know what's good for them, and usually make sane choices.

Probe teams often flash by like a will-o-the-wisp, and get to your bases (to steal tech, bribe units, attack bases or even buy bases out) quicker than you can anticipate them. So you need to keep forward surveillance at full alert (sensors should cover all your territory, especially at the frontiers, and most especially along the roads).

Keep your forward units double stacked so they can't fraternise with the enemy and take covert payments. Keep fast units ready along the roads and near the borders to swiftly repel invaders, whether they be troops, probe teams, or mindworms.

Generate plenty of probe teams of your own: defence probes (e.g. infantry probes) to protect your bases from subversion, and offensive probes (with high mobility) continually scouting for enemy movements and emergent opportunities.

In wartime, rob the enemy blind! Steal their tech, their energy, units, bases. Sabotage them if necessary, but reserve the more heinous attacks (such as genetic warfare and base obliteration) for the enemies you are unremittingly determined to destroy, because once subjected to atrocity they won't forgive you.

If you want to role-play a complete madman, committing atrocities (machiavellian manipulation! treachery! destroying food supplies! killing collony pods! nerve gas! base obliteration! nerve stapling! genetic warfare!) at every opportunity, firing planet busters at everything that moves or sits still, etc etc etc, then that's one of SMAC's many possibilities. But you must expect to face serious consequences. You might get away with it, or you may be destroyed, or the disasters that ensue may make you wish you had been.

The diplomatic win options make SMAC/X very different from sole victory games. You can share victory points with allies: it's not in your interest or in theirs to be bored silly finding and conquering every last base on the map. Instead, your allies can share the fun with you, either by dividing the chore, or by voting their alliance into shared victory.

Best of all, the AI knows all this, and loves to win, and if that means wearing a silver medal while you wear gold, then your allies will readily play second fiddle rather than be like the losers who didn't foresee your greatness.

I was never prouder (in SMAC) than when the popularly despised Miriam (who was very powerful in her own right) laid aside her own pretensions and voted me in as Supreme Leader over mighty Yang's objections. I'd been nice to everyone, so he was left no choice but to capitulate (even the AI has face). Yes, in SMAC good guys do win.

[uberloz]

Wow, that was a great post zoetrope!

Thanks for the info.

I lost my first game because Lal got voted Supreme Leader!

I didn't even see it coming. Just as I was 'getting my feet under me' as it were, along comes a vote and the next thing I know the entire planet is arrayed against me because I refused to capitulate to their whims!

It turned out that on the largest continent it was just Lal and the Gaiens and after Lal took out the Gaiens fairly early he was left with unlimted space and time to expand and build.

Meanwhile I was sharing the second largest continent with the University who was determined to help planet stifle me long enough for this to take place.

After I had crushed the University into sueing for peace and pretty much dealing with Planets set backs, along comes the vote and bang I'm outgunned and outnumbered and outplayed! Hehehe.

I loved it!

But I am in my second game and I turned off the diplomatic victory and I guess the AI knows that and plays differently because of that. Every faction I have met has simply said something to the effect of 'Nice to see you, I hope you don't take it personally but I'm afraid planet isn't big enough for the both of us!' and bang they are at automatic vendetta.

Is there any hope of trade or other diplomacy with the diplomatic victory turned off? Or should I just expect everyone to go on hating me?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by uberloz

Is there any hope of trade or other diplomacy with the diplomatic victory turned off? Or should I just expect everyone to go on hating me?

I don't know on the diplo victory thing but generally, the AI is nice to you when you are weak and hostile if you are strong ( one of the top two factions). Note that the AI's view of strength and weakness seems to mirroe the powergraph . You can actually try to appear weaker than you are as a strategy . Its great fun to have the AI gift me a bunch of tech since I am so weak ( low pop and tech) and then one turn later I start my pop boom, cash my artifacts for tech and begin researching like mad. I only do this type of thing for fun to see how fast I can go from 5th or 6th in the powergraph to an overwhelming crushing lead

[MRT144]

this one goes to 11