Spartans, how to play with them well

[TheClown]

When i think of Colonel Santiago i think of Chile. So SE should be obvious. PS and FM in the A. Pinochet/M. Friedman way. Remember the Spartans are the only original faction that can go FM without becomming pacifist and thereby hindering exploration, competition for pods and still being able to make a good military repsponse without drones getting too many drone problems.
For values Knowledge is the obvious choice (think of ESAs space observatory), reducing the appauling -2 Efficiency to -1 and gaining +1 Research. As stated before Power is normaly not a wise for spartans as the -2 Industry hit them too hard.
The above choices give Spartans a Morgan (DM/PL/WE) - like game (+2 ECO) with some important differrences.

Disadvantages for Spartans:

POLICE (-2 / 0 ): Cant use police - so HG is a must for Spartans. PTS and AV (with NLM - units) being nice too.

EFFICIENCY (-1/+4): No direct conversion of Energy into Labs, and significant pressure against horisontal spread - also meaning Childrens Chreche being important.
If not possible to get rid of the money in any other sensible way, goverment can be changed to DM and start making approx. 80 % conversion to Labs with some 10-20% needed for Psych to fight the pacifist. (after all Pinochet was finally replaced by a democracy)
In some way Spartans need break the bureacracy threshold, as it is necesary to take maximum advantage of the +2 ECO + 2 SUPPORT settings - the importance of happy SPs cannot be under estimated and if necessary some energy must be allocated to psych.

PLANET (-3/+2): Spartans should not be hit so seriously by the -3 Planet - as they hold high morale and can support big amount of formers. But the + 2 for morgans give them a significant better exploration game.

INDUSTRY (-1/+1): This is not a real problem - as the difference in support far upsets this disadvantage for most of the game.

PROBE (-2/0): Not that important if u ask me.

Initial 100 credits: Nice for Morgans to boost his building in beginning of game.


Advantages for Spartans:

SUPPORT (+2/-3): As stated before this far upset the disadvantage for Industry - we r talking about former armies (nice for the crawlers). In combination with the good morale harassing a nearby faction does not seem impossible.

MORALE (+4/-2): Spartan units at same level far outcompet the Morgans and with some luck a good part of them turn into elite (best for infantry). Strong v. psi and probes.

RESEARCH (+1/0): Nice

Initial rover: Nice for Spartans, gives boost to initial exploration.

Hab limit: Although countered by wide horizontal spread, it is still a problem for Morgans to fight this limitation.

Free prototypes: Not that important if u ask me.

TECH-Line:
1. Centaury Ecology and Biogentics. (U want these formers, RTs and the necesary HG)
2. Doc Loy, Social psych and IE. (For making society PS/FM, Rec. commons being a necessity under FM)
3. IA. and. Cyberethics (We need start building crawlers, the PTS and finishing the society model.)
4th etc.. Probably Flex and some military upgrades before getting rid of the restrictions along the road to EE (or perhaps PE for AV and HF) and then airpower.

SPs:

200 shields.
HG is a must.
WP very nice - as the Former army becomes very powerfull making Boreholes. Raising land etc.
Rest can go to the other factions.

300 shields.
PTS very nice almost a must.
VW always nice - but the + 2 Econ make researhospitals good too - so Hologram theatre maybe not that important.
HSA Always very nice
AV. Also nice as possibillity of using 1 police unit would do wonders.
Rest can go to the other factions.


I have just started my first game as Spartans along these lines on Huge Map, Tech Stag. IM. Transcend. I would asume Morgans to be little easier to play under these terms. Especially the +2 planet is nice. The question being if Santiagos Former army can upset this advantage. The funny thing is compared to the Colonel, Morgan becomes the explorer and Santiago the builder
I hope i win.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by TheClown
The above choices give Spartans a Morgan (DM/PL/WE) - like game (+2 ECO) with some important differrences.

Huh? Neither Morgan nor Spartans can have Demo/Plan/Wealth. Morgans can not run Planned and the Spartans can not run Wealth.

Originally posted by TheClown
If not possible to get rid of the money in any other sensible way

Funny, I have never had this problem before.

Originally posted by TheClown
PROBE (-2/0): Not that important if u ask me.

Only completely unimportant in SP games

[binTravkin]

Funny, I have never had this problem before.

ROTFL!

You guys gave me a real laugh!
How can one ever have that problem!

[Chaos Theory]

It is possible very early in the game, especially under tech stag conditions. If you can build a CP or a scout patrol, what are you going to do with 100 energy? If you rush CPs, you run out of spare population quickly. If you rush scout patrols, you run out of support.

[binTravkin]

Mhmm.. but anyways, you can get BioGen fast and you've got the opposite problem as now you're trying to build Rectanks in all the cities.

OR (and what expierenced players do most often) - research Cent Eco first and rush formers..

[Slh666]

I've tried a few ICSing WOW I like it, i've also started building two bore holes per city with two condensor farms that really works good thank you for the help i appreciate it.

Also what is a Grav tank I've yet to see it, is it in smax only or am I just not researching the right techs for it?

[binTravkin]

Im sure you can find Grav Tanks in SMAC too, you just need Grawship chassis

[TheClown]

Perhaps some points in my sparta strategy have been misunderstood - which probably is my fault.
I intended to compare the the traditional Morgan set up with Demo/PLANET/Wealth with Spartans Police/FM/Know. As both have +2 Econ making them comparable.
I hoped too prove that Santiago was perhaps one of the better suited factions for a traditional build game as FM not hurt them so much.

"Getting rid of my money" was of course a joke - my point being that efficiency for high Energy conversion to labs is normaly not that important - as investment in procuction often be just as good.
Reaching a specific tech ASAP can of course in somecases be very important for ur strategy, but investment in lets say rushing production of a colony pod is a clearcut investment in further exponential expansion/growth.
The opposit conversion may actually somtimes be more relevant, if having a good exploration game getting many aa. Gaian strategy?

And yes - the repsponse was intended for sp game - but still i have never really used of high PROBE rating as defense - I prefer garrision weak spots with high moral probe teams.

[CEO Aaron]

Originally posted by TheClown
Perhaps some points in my sparta strategy have been misunderstood - which probably is my fault.
I intended to compare the the traditional Morgan set up with Demo/PLANET/Wealth with Spartans Police/FM/Know. As both have +2 Econ making them comparable.

Uh, Demo/Planet/Wealth is far from traditional for Morganite play, unless you're very late in the game. For most of the game, you're running Frontier/Free Market/Wealth, switching to Fundie/Green/Wealth for military endeavors.

I hoped too prove that Santiago was perhaps one of the better suited factions for a traditional build game as FM not hurt them so much.

The problem with that outlook is that any true builder faction will outbuild you by leaps and bounds if you just sit back and try to build, and Free Market's lack of drone control rapidly causes unrest issues if you go on a rampaging conquer campaign. Police/FM offers the worst of both worlds, imo. A good quantity of your cash is squandered on inefficiency, and you're still stuck using large volumes of doctors or spending vast amounts of money and minerals building drone control facilities. If you really want to build, just go Demo/FM, and keep the extra energy that FM gives you.

The upshot of all this is that Sparta isn't a builder faction, they're a momentum faction that can build in a pinch. Play a solid momentum game, steal your tech instead of researching it, and once you've stolen the right techs for a pop boom, switch gears and get all your bases to hab limits.

[gwillybj]

Spartans Fundamentalist Planned Power Cybernetic.
No overlapping base grids. Claim maximum territory.
Forest & Forget, but don't forget roads and sensors.
Attack and/or Probe - early and often.
Get out to sea asap.
Pact with Yang if he's not your neighbor. If he is, try to either take him out or grind him into a Submissive Pact.
Pact with Morgan for the commerce. I've never had him turn on me, even if I tell him to go pound sand when he starts whining.
Pact with Zakharov, but don't count on it lasting forever, so get from him what you can whenever you can.
The Gaians, Believers, and U.N. are just in the way and their word is worthless.
Most important: Have Fun!