Police Rating and Non-Lethal Methods

[Barinthus]

Ah! Thanks, Major Guz, I forgot all about that SP.

So with the Self-Aware Colony, every base automatically have a "ghost" police unit? So with -1 and 0 Police Rating, there is no need for a real police unit, with +1 there is a room for one real police unit, and with +2 and +3 there are room for two real police units?

Does the Self-Aware Colony have any effect under the Police Rating of -2 or less? Or would the SP be 'wasted' on a faction that has a police rating of -2 or below?

[livid imp]

Let me see if I can break down the police system (the way I understand it) and see if it clears things up for folks.

First off a little about the Psych system.....Think of psych as one of those number lines from primary school math:
A worker represents a 0 on the psych scale.
A drone represents a -2 and a talent is a +2.
When you talk about adding drones or talents or police or whatever, you are really adding to the number line. So a Rec Common subtracts -4 psych. Notice I didn't say adds a +4, that would be the effect of the Paradise Gardens (adds two talents). Ultimately, they all add up to the same amount {+(+4)=-(-4)=+4}, but they do perform differently in the game.

Anyway, back to the cops. NLM and "double police" effect does not actually give x2 drone suppression as advertised.
The following assumes a -1 POLICE SE rating:
When a military unit is added to a city, you are actually subtracting a -2, or one less drone. When you add a military unit with NLM you are subtracting -2 for the unit, and an additional -2 for NLM. Similarly, the "double police" SE effect actually only delivers (wrap your head around this ) an additional subtraction of a -2, same as NLM. This is why you get a tripling effect, not a double-doubling effect. One -(-2) for the unit, one -(-2) for the NLM, and one -(-2) for the SE effect for a net subtraction of -6 or -(-6) or three less drones.

Now is everyone properly confused?

Just for reference, they do it this way so they can use these numbers for other calculations. For instance, if the talents number (the positive numbers) is less than the drones (the negative numbers), then drone riots erupt. It also controls the display of the drones/talents. Lets say you are on Transcend level with a level 3 city (so 2 drones or -4 psych). You have the HGP +(+2), and one military unit -(-2).
(-4) +(+2)-(-2)=0......drone/talent equilibrium displaying one talent, one worker, one drone.

I'm not 100% sure how the SAC SP acts in relation, but theoretically, it should just subtract a -2.

Originally posted by Barinthus
Does the Self-Aware Colony have any effect under the Police Rating of -2 or less? Or would the SP be 'wasted' on a faction that has a police rating of -2 or below?

The SP specifically states "if your current social engineering allows for police"....a -2 obviously wouldn't allow for police.

[Chaos Theory]

The SAC police unit is nice, but never has non-lethal methods, so there's still room for improvement on top of the ghost unit. The unit is indeed not useful for Police <= -2. I'm not certain if it works properly at Police = +3, and don't have the time to test it right now.

[Barinthus]

If I understood you right, Chao Theory, in a way if I have three clean NLM units in every base with +3 Police I'm better off not having SAC?

No SAC - 9 drones suppressed
With SAC - 8 drones suppressed

Is that what you are saying?

Or perhaps if I have SAC and I happen to have 3 NLM units, the game will ignore SAC and give me credit for three real police units?

For instance...

2 real police and SAC ghost police - 8 drones suppressed
3 real police (third police unit overriding the ghost SAC police) - 9 drones suppressed

[Chaos Theory]

I think the actual police unit overrides the ghost one if it's better in the same way a nonlethal methods garrison overrides a normal garrison. I haven't tested this, though.

[Major Guz]

I can remember that way back (I think 2 years or so) there was a thread regarding the ghost police unit of the SAC.
Maybe it is in the archives somehwere.
I don't remember what the outcome was though.

[-SafaN-]

Just play morgan and don't bother with police: use money

Greetz

[Natalinasmpf]

Yes funnel everything into Psych. ;-)

[Modo44]

Just play spartan and don't bother with money, use power Power POWER.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Barinthus
If I understood you right, Chao Theory, in a way if I have three clean NLM units in every base with +3 Police I'm better off not having SAC?

You are only better off if you have virtually no facilities in your bases. Otherwise, police or no police the SAC is really all about the halving of facility costs. One of the best SPs, and really almost always worth taking.

[Hercules]

Interesting and refreshing thread and especially if combined with Kody's thread on suppressing drones generally: how that works with the facilities.

Then throw in faction special features such as the Cult's
"worms do double police" and the effect of brood pits (to be explored) gives base a +2 rating or +2 more rating) plus the Ascetic Values which increases societies tolerance for use of police, + 1.

Sure I'll be keeping a 16 size base content with a worm and a
1-1p-1 unit .

[gwillybj]

Originally posted by -SafaN-
Just play morgan and don't bother with police: use money

That's what got me screwed up - trying to play Morgan and forgetting about the police restrictions in FM.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Yes funnel everything into Psych. ;-)

That's how I did it - had to run 30% for a little bit, but went back to 20% a while back and I'm doing okay.

Many thanks to all for the replies and analysis.

[Barinthus]

And kudos to you, gwillybj, for starting this discussion. It uncovered many detials I never really gave much thought to before. I usually let specialists, facilities, and luxury take care of my drones problem. Now I see that there are some alternatives I have not fully explored yet. I hope there will be a comphresive analysis on how facilities, police rating, unit abilities, and special projects affect the police suppression of those bloody drones.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by -SafaN-
Just play morgan and don't bother with police: use money

I say, use money and police!
Morgan runs best with Demo/Green/Wealth.

(+2 Econ and a +4 Efficency) > (+3 Econ and +2 Efficency)

Plus you can still use police, and go to war, and capture worms under this SE. Plus less B-Drones, less energy wasted, and 100% Labs/EC concentration. The only caveat is the support problems, easily solved with clean reactors and/or switching to fundy during war.

[Chaos Theory]

Demo/Green/Wealth is indeed a good SE set for Morgan, but something/FM/Wealth is better early on, for an extra 4 energy/base when bases are pretty small. Later, the commerce boost might be appealing, but among AIs, running FM/Wealth is not the best way to make allies with which to trade.