Difference between supercollider and theory of everything SPs

[Hercules]

Yeah apart from all that, What has the CBA ever done for us.

[Jamski]

Pretty crappy SP if you ask me. Give me the Pholus Mutagen any day.

-jam

[Commy]

You still have not given me any reason to want to build the CBA. If I am doing a free market, I can't afford to mass an airforce for attack, only interceptors for defense (until Telepathic Matrix, but then its too late). Not to mention the fact that the +2 morale from aerospace complexes is worthless when you have -2 morale from wealth, and then another -2 from Euadaimonia. Ooh, let's see, I can have very green units or very green units, big decision. Not to mention, nobody can airdrop in your base radius if you have an interceptor, which nocks out another advantage of aerospace complexes. As for air attacks, no need to worry, because I'm in the tech lead with better equiped interceptors, and missiles can't do crap with flechettes, especially when I have tachyon fields and high armor. The only worthwhile advantage left of aerospace complexes is satellites. And since the only satellites I build are OPDs, I don't need to build more than one aerospace complex. Now free energy banks in every base, there's a worthwhile project, go for the energy...

[GeoModder]

Free facilites are always advantigious. Even if only to disallow your opponent to have an airbase everywhere effectively stopping your recently build drop units. Probes can't sabotage those free facilities as well, remember that.

[Commy]

Now that is a good reason. Denial to the AI. But then again, using that same point, you could try to convince me to build the Planetary Datalinks, so in a sense, it is not a good reason. I have lost many battles to the AI trying to build secret projects when I should have been building military units for defense. The price of a few bases can go along with the actual cost of the secret project if you are caught off guard in a war, so adding to the list of large projects to build is not exactly what I have in mind. If it gives energy, direct energy, not just free facilities, the I build it. Of course, there are a few exceptions, but only those that advantages truly are advantagous to my style, which the CBA clearly does not fit in...

[Qwerty88]

Airospace Complexes don't defend against all air attack, the best thing is Dream Twister and Neural Amplifier with plenty of lifecycle boosting Secret Projects and facilities to build killer Locus and Sea Lurks, bypassing deffencess and quickly killing your enemies with a sweeping wave of psi units, also maximising your planet score helps for the attack boast.

[Chaos Theory]

Commy: You don't build production-boosting satellites? Why not??

[Jamski]

Airospace Complexes don't defend against all air attack, the best thing is Dream Twister and Neural Amplifier with plenty of lifecycle boosting Secret Projects and facilities to build killer Locus and Sea Lurks, bypassing deffencess and quickly killing your enemies with a sweeping wave of psi units, also maximising your planet score helps for the attack boast.

Locusts DIE attacking AAA troops with Aerospace complexes. Trust me on this one.

Commy - you really need to consider the advantages of every base popping a couple of sats up. You can basically add ~50% to your min/nut/energy production in a few turns - at every base!

-Jam

[Commy]

I never said that I didn't build satellites, or that I build aerospace complexes. What I said was that I am not wasting the resources to build an uneccesary secret project for my playing style.

Think about it, say that I have an energy bank (planetary energy grid) in every base, and a hybrid forest and tree farm in every base. Say also that I am doing a free market, and I am doing 50% allocation to economy, and that I have 10 population 11 bases, all identical to eachother. If each base was immune to inefficiency, and was working 11 forests, to get 3 energy in each square, and say that 5 energy were in each base square, then each base would get 38 energy total, 19 of which would go to economy. The facilities would then raise that number to 45. Because of maintenance of the tree farm and hybrid forest, that is 38 ECs of profit from each base, and with 10 bases, that would equal 380 ECs per turn. WITHOUT aerospaces at each base (except the one building satellites), and with exactly 11 energy satellites, each base would make an additional 11 raw energy, or plus 5 energy to economy, which would then be halved to 2, making a total of 21, and with facilities that would come out to be 52 ECs per base, minus 7 from maintenance, making 45 ECs per base, for a total of 450 ECs per turn.

With the CBA, using the same settings as above, I would make 530 ECs per turn. While there certainly are benifits, remember that not all base will be pop 11, will have hybrid forests and tree farms, and therefore the benifits, as far as economics go, will not be as great.

Undoubtly, yes, the CBA is an astounding secret project, but just like the Command Nexus and Maritime Control Center, they are ment for those you would need them, and Morgan is not in need or in interest of being a military superpower, nor am I.

As far as economics and militaries go, I can do a free market and still lead military campaigns if I have the Telepathic Matrix. Capturing numerous enemy cities will give me more power and energy than the CBA ever will...

[GeoModder]

What you just described is a snapshot in the game. Your bases continue to grow (or you lose some to the AI), you're empire goes on, whatever way, and seen in that respect is the CBA merely a tool to achieve your goal faster. It's simple as that.

As for your last paragraph, those captured cities will be the more stronger with all those free facilities immediately popping up in them the moment you own them, thus increasing the effect of the CBA tremendiously. It's simply a matter of exponentials, Commy...

[Chaos Theory]

I contend that the Telepathic Matrix should not give you greater returns than the CBA. You should transcend roughly 10 turns after you build the Matrix, but the CBA comes much sooner, just at about the same time you get to build satellites. Rather than build aerospace complexes in each city, build the CBA in one (only 30 rows IIRC) and build satellites sooner in all the others. Furthermore, all your small/conquered bases can completely neglect aerospace complexes and instead build fusion labs or whatever. The CBA would be valuable even if this was all it did, but it has extensive military applications as well.

[Santiago_Claus]

The Teletubby Matrix is eye candy.

The CBA, OTOH, is like an HSA against drop units. Always-on satellites and air morale are icing on the cake.

[MoNoLitH]

Originally posted by Qwerty88
Airospace Complexes don't defend against all air attack, the best thing is Dream Twister and Neural Amplifier with plenty of lifecycle boosting Secret Projects and facilities to build killer Locus and Sea Lurks, bypassing deffencess and quickly killing your enemies with a sweeping wave of psi units, also maximising your planet score helps for the attack boast.

As stated below, AAA + Aerospace Complexes spells doom for this strategy. I've been on both ends of this many times.

[Blake]

Yeah the AAA +100% vs locusts is just brtual, it doesn't matter how darn good your locusts are.... at best you'll be facing 3:4 odds vs AAA units. And if they start cranking out cheap AAA Trance units your attack is done for. Problem with PSI ignoring weapons/armor is it works both ways, expensive PSI units can be countered with dirt cheap conventional units.

Another fun counter to PSI is the slightly bizzare 1-2t-10, clean (3 rows, 2 without clean). Being air, it defends 1:1 against all PSI, making the trance + base + sensor bonuses really rock. And the mobility just rocks too, especially because it can easily cross terrain that bogs down ground-bound defenders.

Oh I love the CBA to airdrop as HSA to probe anology.

The main problem with Telepathic Matrix is by the time you can get it you can run most or all the future SE's, allowing nearly any desired combo of SE benefits without drone problems. The only thing I see it marginally useful for is allowing the devote punishing freemarketeer to scrap all his fun spheres, reclaiming a small amount of cash and lab points. (but this could backfire, because fun spheres also increase probe costs - making them such a tasty buy for captured bases)

[#endgame]

I know its a reasonably far off tech, but if the dissociative wave (Centauri Psi) only fizzled the defender's bonuses, imagine the power of empath dissociative psi choppers!

Anyone know if the D-wave affects attackers and defenders, and if so, does it affect the 3:2 advantage for land attackers? If it's as good as I hope it is, I know that there is something other than locusts that I'd really want.