The Merchant Exchange?

[Ouro_827]

I could test this out at home, but I was trying to make up a decent little run-through of all the SPs.... I was wondering, does the Merchant Exchange let you exceed 2 energy before restriction techs or not? If you have a river or something, that's giving you two energy before building, it isn't a resource, and you haven't lifted energy restricitons, will you get 2 or 3 out of it, if you built the Exchange in the base using that square? Also, does it increase energy yields for monoliths and forests?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Re: The Merchant Exchange?

Originally posted by Ouro_827
I could test this out at home, but I was trying to make up a decent little run-through of all the SPs.... I was wondering, does the Merchant Exchange let you exceed 2 energy before restriction techs or not? If you have a river or something, that's giving you two energy before building, it isn't a resource, and you haven't lifted energy restricitons, will you get 2 or 3 out of it, if you built the Exchange in the base using that square?

Nope. Energy restrictions till apply as normal. Exceptions being the ones that always existed an energy special or the base square.

Also, does it increase energy yields for monoliths and forests?

Yep. For the monoltih you of course will not see the effect until after restriction lifting. For forest is will raise the 1-2-1 to 1-2-2 effective immediately.

[Dis]

that's why I never build it .

[Skanky Burns]

I build it because I build all the wonders, but were I playing MP I would ignore this project. Very bad cost/benefit ratio.

[TheRedmenace]

The Merchant Exchange is still subject to the energy caps. Usually your minerals are better spent on other stuff. I've seen the Gaians build it though, with the explanation that they needed every joule they could get since they couldn't run Free Market. I guess I can sort of buy that, but normally, just pass on this one.

It also makes a nice placehold if you want to get a head start on a project before you get the necessary tech.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
.... were I playing MP I would ignore this project. Very bad cost/benefit ratio.

Not at all. The bonus of 1 extra energy per square that this gives applies as well to all worked squares for that base, not just inside it's base radius.

So if it's the foundation for your super science city, with 30 or 40 crawlers working to trundle energy in, that's an awesome amoung of extra energy esp. when multiplied by all the research-enhancing SP's

And to avoid losing to inefficiency, build it in your HQ

It's almost a must for Morgan

G.

[Dis]

yeah but you can't get all of them. I usually have to sacrifice some, and this is one of them.

[Chaos Theory]

Suppose you have the ME in a SSC with 40 crawlers. Assume, generously, the SSC itself is working 15 tiles (base + 14 population). This means the ME is contributing 55 energy. With a reasonable (land) energy park, the average tile should be contributing at least 6 energy (7 with the ME), between echelon mirrors, elevation, and +2 econ. Therefore, the ME at this point is worth 9 worked tiles.

Each worked tile costs a crawler and, on average, 12 units of former time (6 for a solar panel, or 16 for an echelon mirror, and half of each, plus a road on each tile). Therefore, the ME, which costs 6 + 2/3 crawlers in the early game, is worth, at most, 9 crawlers + 108 units of former time + 9 tiles of land in the mid game (assuming 40 crawlers with the ME). Is this a reasonable return on investment?

For what it's worth, an optimal energy park would return an average of 4 (high elevation) + 3 (average echelon mirror bonus) + 1 (+2 econ) + 1 (rivers on the whole thing) + 1 (ME) = 10 energy/tile, plus any energy bonuses.

[Jamski]

One advantage of the ME combined with FM before lifting restrictions, is that the two give +2 energy per tile. So you can get the maximum energy from any tile - even unimproved ones.

So?

So you crawl empty tiles for 2 energy, which is worth more early game than 10 ec is in the mid game.

-Jam

[Ouro_827]

Well yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to come up with.... Most players forest their lands early, unless you're tryhing to see what you can do using normal improvements, or you're a native faction living off fungus..... Let's say you build it in base size 5, with 3 energy crawlers working from it.... you got lucky and picked it up as a bonus. Now, you're making 9 energy more a turn. If you wanted to rush in... say a terraformer for 20 credits, that would be about 2 turns from that base. So you're gaining what's normally called the turn advatage. 9 energy. Every turn. With a promise to grow. Let's say you build more crawlers and the base gets bigger. Now you lift restrictions. Now, in a size 9 base, with 6 energy crawlers, you are making 17 energy a turn, which is almost enough to buy a terraformer every turn. That is what is termed 'turn advantage' by ceritain parties.

[Chaos Theory]

The Merchant Exchange, even if it gives a decent rate of return in the early game, has its cost. You could have another of the 20 row projects, or extra formers or crawlers in the early game. To convince me it's a good deal you need to show it gives a better return than other common early game investments, such as the WP, formers, or more bases.

[Jamski]

Actually nothing has such a good return as more bases, CT, but on a strictly energy-->minerals basis, it can take 40 or more turns for the ME to "pay back" its construction costs. Compare with a crawler that can pay back its costs in no more than 10 turns (normally much less) or a former, average of about 12 turns.

So yes, the ME takes a bit longer to turn a profit, but the question is : is it worth building it now, to use later before someone else gets it?

I ALWAYS try to grab it in the city that will get the Supercollider and/or ToE, and then it is very much worth the 20 rows.

Think of the future!

-Jam

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Jamski
Actually nothing has such a good return as more bases

And the ME is nowhere near as good as the WP/HGP/VW but that is not in question. Just whether or not the ME is worth building at all.

Originally posted by Jamski
I ALWAYS try to grab it in the city that will get the Supercollider and/or ToE, and then it is very much worth the 20 rows.

Think of the future!

Agreed. This is exactly what I do. Not only does it give you +1 energy per base square per turn, but more importantly it also gives +1 to every crawler from that base. That can easily be +20 energy per turn just from crawlers alone. Plus +10 or so from the base squares. 30 energy per turn extra. So what is it 2 ec per min? 4ec per min? So the payback comes in 13 or 26 turns? Everything after that is gravy.

Are my numbers right? Can someone confirm this?

edit: whoops, I just repeated what Googlie already said about this. forgot where this thread had already gone.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Livid,

I beleive the +10 from base squares is questionable. The only base square to benefit from ME would be the base that has the ME.

[Skanky Burns]

If you are working 10 squares then you will be getting +10. This of course assumes that restrictions are lifted, but by the time you are working 10 tiles that should be true.

And the question is whether this is worth building in an MP game, or whether other stuff such as other projects are better. In SP, every project is worth building, even useless ones. Why not?