I am starting to feel sorry for Apolyton.

[FrostyBoy]

How long have we all been here? I was here during DanQ's and MarkG's seperate websites before they merged into Apolyton.

It's kind of sad to see that the website hasn't changed since, a few changes here and there yes, but nothing else more.

This website needs a serious overhaul. There is enough skill on these boards to form a committee of skilled developers and designers to build a brand new Apolyton.

I also think we need to attract more attention from outside. I personally think a lot of people get scared when they visit this website, or they don't think it's a "real" website, it kind of looks like something some guy put together over the weekend. (If you don't visit the forums of course).

Is it time to take Apolyton more seriously and take it to the next level? Or just let it fade away?

[Locutus]

We've been asking for help with this for many months and while everyone has their ideas on how to improve the site, very few people have stepped up to the plate when it comes to actually putting some of those ideas into action. If you're willing to help out with that part, we would most definitely be interested.

We've gone quite a ways with implementing a new forum, which will have to form the basis for any further upgrades to the site (much of the groundwork for which has also already been laid), but the biggest sticking point right now is that we need people experienced with XHTML, CSS and at least a little bit of PHP (and ideally the vB template system, although that can be learned on-the-job) to implement the front-end of the new design. That's a pretty major undertaking and so far the only one on staff willing and able to do it has been me (although other staff members have been working on other aspects of the upgrade) -- but unfortunately RL has eaten up all of my time ATM (and the same is largely true for Gramphos, who's done the most work on the back-end) so until my schedule clears up or we find adequate help that work has mostly ground to a halt.

[FrostyBoy]

This doesn't really sound like a plan of action. But I understand yours and everyone's RL getting in the way.

But lets face it, Apolyton is part of our RL, I'm sure we can do it if we combine the strength.

Put the forums aside for now, that can be handled later. I think the first mission is to work out what the overall look of the website will be, what features will be installed and how the user will interact with the website.

A proper Apolyton logo might also be in need. We need something that is identifiable.

I personally think we should keep with the white background, and console like theme of Apolyton, but upgrade it with better graphics and seamless interaction, much like BBC's frontpage.

What have been your thoughts?

[Locutus]

We have a pretty good idea of what the look and feel of the site will be and what features it will have (although that will no doubt evolve once we start rolling it out and getting feedback from the community), we've worked that out over the past 2 years already (that's been my main activity ever since I took over as admin). The issue now is to actually implement that stuff, which is where we've ran into trouble because of our lack of manpower.

[Nikolai]

Too bad I have no useable skills...

[Solver]

Putting the forums aside for later isn't a wise idea either, it's the forums that contain most of our useful info, etc. And the forums are what scare people away more than the site, the main site may not be great but it's pretty okay looking in my opinion, the forums look, and are, much more outdated and also uglier.

A forum upgrade (that will be followed by other changes across the board) has been in the works for about 2 years now and during this time, as Locutus says, we have repeatedly asked for volunteers but we didn't get much in terms of useful responses. This time around there's no lack of desire to make the changes but there's a severe lack of time and manpower. Basically we have to make do with the people who've been on staff for a long time and that's where RL issues come in. Gramphos has been very effective, doing most of the difficult database and other backend work, but he also has very little time to spare for this, and that describes our general pattern - the people who have the needed skills don't have the time to spend on the site.

So that this doesn't sound too pessimistic, I'll say that there is progress. It's slow and the upgrade is taking considerably longer than any of us anticipated but things aren't standing still, we are actually moving closer to giving you an updated site.

[Lorizael]

This has been a gripe with a lot of users for a pretty long time now. Can you guys give an estimate as to when you'll be ready to discuss when you can give us a timetable for when the upgrade will be nearing the point when you could tell us when it will happen?

[Solver]

We're pretty much telling you when we have some news. It's very hard to give estimates given that we don't have anyone working on the upgrade on a fixed schedule, it all depends on other responsibilities of those involved. And we're certainly past our own estimated and hoped dates of launching the upgraded site.

[Lorizael]

How about this. Put the events below in chronological order:

The Sun engulfs the Earth
Humans travel to Mars
The Mayan long count resets
The glaciers reach us
Apolyton launches the upgraded site

[Solver]

Sometime after President Obama gets an amendment repealing the natural-born citizen requirement to pass and gets promptly replaced by President Schwarzenegger

[Zopperoni]

Even then, all that is going to happen before Duke Nukem Forever launches.

[Locutus]

As we are entirely dependent on a very small group of volunteers spending what little free time they can find in their busy lives, we can almost never give a time table for anything like this. We pushed hard to get the new forums and site out over the summer, but obviously that didn't work out. Believe me, we want this every bit as much as you do, probably more so, but without more manpower it's just going to take a long time.

[Solver]

And just to reiterate because this can't be stressed enough: if anyone with (X)HTML, CSS, PHP and possibly SQL skills is reading this and is willing and able to assist us, please PM any of the admins.

[Keygen]

I do have some working knowledge/experience with web design (not with web development - PHP/SQL - unfortunatelly) that could help if you'd like.

I will be available from mid November however since I initiated a couple of projects recently that I need to attend.

[DrSpike]

Best of luck with finding the time to finish the upgrade. But I have to be honest, I think Apolyton may have missed the window now anyway and I question whether the upgrade or prettier forums/website will move us back towards the former userbase.

And I usually say when we have these threads, I feel that the missing elements for that are actually not technical ability at all, but management & leadership.