Petition To Have Thread Limit in OT Removed

[DaShi]

Post in this threads your reasons for/against having the OT 2 thread limit removed. Hopefully, the management will listen.

My reasons were laid out in a thread on the OT that was deleted. The mods' reason: spam. Given that there was little spam in the thread and a serious attempt by myself to steer the discussion toward fruitful results. The point of that thread was to determine if the 2 thread limit truly was effective in reducing spam. Until its deletion, the results were an overwhelming, no.

So here I will lay out my reasons for the removal of the 2 thread limit:

1. It is only enforced by active mods deleting or closing extra threads. Bannings occur on occasion. This issue leads to several problematic results of the 2 thread limit.

A. Any poster is free to post as many threads as they like in the OT. They can spam the entire first page if they wish. They can do this with or without the 2 thread limit. The end result is the same, the threads are closed or deleted and the poster maybe banned.

B. In a period where mod abuse is becoming more frequent, the 2 thread limit is an ideal weapon for an insecure mod, since it is entirely mod supported. While mods are supposed to impartially deal with the extra threads in order of posting, I've seen a mod disregard that and selectively close threads that he disagrees with. The apology and request for a different thread closure of the threads' creator went ignored. In this case, the additional threads were created by accident. Then, of course, is the issuing of banning. It's too easy for a mod to use this to ban a poster he doesn't like. We've already seen such unjust banning for less based on personal bias.

2. Most posters don't post more than a thread a day or less. I, myself, only post a few a month, usually grouped around the same time period, when I have free time. One day a poster may have three topics they have time to discuss.

3. Most posters do care about Apolyton and have no desire to harm the forums themselves. The 2 thread limit, however, treats these posters as if they are children with no selfcontrol. It is insulting to the general populace here. It demeans their love for apolyton and disrespects their status as human beings.

As my poll in the previous thread indicated, there will be no negative change to the OT, if the 2 thread limit is removed. It doesn't prevent the true griefers who will spam anyway, and the regular posters probably won't post much more than 1-3 threads in the period of one day, anyway. However, removing the 2 thread limit, will also removed a potential area of mod abuse, which will lessen complaints and create a freer and more comfortable environment in Apolyton. In addition, removing it will treat the posters here as responsible participants. Posters who are treated as responsible adults will act in such a way, while posters who are treated as children will behave as such. Removing the 2 thread limit will improve the general self-esteem of Apolyton posters, which may actually reduce problems in other areas as well.

I invite others to share their opinions on this rule, and ask the management to seriously consider whether the 2 thead limit is truly consistent with the vision of Apolyton.

[MarkG]

In a period where mod abuse is becoming more frequent

on which site?

could you tell me when was the last time someone was banned for posting a third thread?

[DaShi]

I don't believe that I said that that happened. However, I do mention that there potential for it. As for abuse, I'll admit that there is less here than other forums. But I've complained about abuse in the past and so have others, only to hear our voices silenced by the "Good Ol' Boys Club" of moderators. However, mod abuse isn't the primary issue here. The effectiveness of the 2 thread limit is.

[MarkG]

I do mention that there potential for it.

we've had the rule for years and it has been proven that posting by mistake a third thread doesnt get you banned

raising invalid issues doesnt do anything else that waste our time

[DaShi]

But you're not even discussing my issues. You're making up your own conclusions, arguing them, and then declaring victory. Must I request that you argue the issues presented? If so, the consider it done, with great respect, of course.

[Ming]

Re: Petition To Have Thread Limit in OT Removed

Originally posted by DaShi
So here I will lay out my reasons for the removal of the 2 thread limit:

1. It is only enforced by active mods deleting or closing extra threads. Bannings occur on occasion. This issue leads to several problematic results of the 2 thread limit.

A. Any poster is free to post as many threads as they like in the OT. They can spam the entire first page if they wish. They can do this with or without the 2 thread limit. The end result is the same, the threads are closed or deleted and the poster maybe banned.

No... the end result isn't the same. The majority of people follow the rules. When somebody doesn't, it gets noticed quickly and we can take quicker action against the violation because the rules violation is clear.
If it wasn't against the rule, people could create five or six "marginal" threads, then whine like stuck pigs and claim they weren't spamming...

B. In a period where mod abuse is becoming more frequent, the 2 thread limit is an ideal weapon for an insecure mod, since it is entirely mod supported. While mods are supposed to impartially deal with the extra threads in order of posting, I've seen a mod disregard that and selectively close threads that he disagrees with. The apology and request for a different thread closure of the threads' creator went ignored. In this case, the additional threads were created by accident. Then, of course, is the issuing of banning. It's too easy for a mod to use this to ban a poster he doesn't like. We've already seen such unjust banning for less based on personal bias.

As Mark said... please point out when somebody was banned for actually starting a third thread by accident. When somebody does get banned for starting a third thread by accident in the future, feel free to bring that up again. Your whole "it's too easy for a mod to use this to a ban a poster" is crap

2. Most posters don't post more than a thread a day or less. I, myself, only post a few a month, usually grouped around the same time period, when I have free time. One day a poster may have three topics they have time to discuss.

Before the rule was in place... many people liked to play the game of "how many threads" can I start. Granted, the majority of people didn't, and as you say, start only a few threads.. but you can blame the posters for why this rule was inacted in the first place. As usually the case, rules are inacted for a real reason

3. Most posters do care about Apolyton and have no desire to harm the forums themselves. The 2 thread limit, however, treats these posters as if they are children with no selfcontrol. It is insulting to the general populace here. It demeans their love for apolyton and disrespects their status as human beings.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA... well, some don't have self control. And as stated above, that's why the rule HAD to be put in place to begin with. Like most things in life, the majority of people usually aren't the problem. But there are people here who continue to spam this site.

As my poll in the previous thread indicated, there will be no negative change to the OT, if the 2 thread limit is removed. It doesn't prevent the true griefers who will spam anyway, and the regular posters probably won't post much more than 1-3 threads in the period of one day, anyway.

The regular posters aren't really the problem. But now you are putting the mods into a position of judging the "value" of each thread... And what then becomes the definition of spam... is it 5 threads with little value, three threads with no value... 10 threads, even though they might have value but the intent is to take over the first page... The 2 thread limit is a clear and understandable rule... and easy to enforce.

However, removing the 2 thread limit, will also removed a potential area of mod abuse, which will lessen complaints and create a freer and more comfortable environment in Apolyton.

Actually... you are adding more potential for mod abuse.
The current rule is simple and there is no "judgement/opinion" involved. Without a rule in place, now mod opinion comes into play... and if we believe your "mods are abusing people" line... you are just offering another chance for it to happen.

In addition, removing it will treat the posters here as responsible participants. Posters who are treated as responsible adults will act in such a way, while posters who are treated as children will behave as such.

Again... please remember that the rule was put into place for a reason. And there are still nights where people spam... when the posters were treated as responsible and there was no limit... they abused it.
So much for that argument

Removing the 2 thread limit will improve the general self-esteem of Apolyton posters, which may actually reduce problems in other areas as well.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... yeah, right

I invite others to share their opinions on this rule, and ask the management to seriously consider whether the 2 thead limit is truly consistent with the vision of Apolyton.

I'm sure Mark and Dan will read the opinions and as always, seriously consider what people say.

But again, please remember that originally, they didn't restrict the number of threads... and people abused it.

You have stated no reasons or support points to indicate why things would be any different now than they were before.

[MarkG]

1. mute point as there are no bans due to the rule

2. a small price to pay in order reduce spam. the rule after all was created out of necessity, not just so that mods have one more way to have their fun

3. most posters love apolyton but that doesnt mean we shouldnt have rules. most posters love apolyton cause it does have rules. if they felt we treat them as kids they wouldnt be here

hope you're happy with me discussing your issues

[Atahualpa]

/me enters for a cheap +1

To change something you should first show that the current situation is a problem. For me it isn't and I guess hardly anyone cares. Additionally, I also think that if you've just 2, you're more serious about them.
Your petition is doomed to fail, sorry. Even if you get 200 Apolytoners to sign, Mark and Ming will still say no. Judging by your regdate, you should know them better

Ofc, Mark could grant PLUS users 3 threads per day

[rah]

I have never banned a person for starting a third thread unless it was a deliberate attempt to break the rule. (you can tell ) I think I did it once.

I have always used the time stamp of the thread start to determine the last thread started for deletion purposes. Content is not used for this so claiming that we do it to silence opinions we don't agree with is just silly.

And finally, I really don't like banning people and will do everything possible before doing it. I don't like banning people, it is not fun and creates paperwork.

Accusations of MOD abuse are taken seriously and are discussed. Actions have been taken on those very rare occasions that it happen. Mods have been punished.
I know from personal experience when I stepped over the line once. I have not done it since.

And from experience I see the need for this rule and agree that it should stay in effect.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
Ofc, Mark could grant PLUS users 3 threads per day

now that's an idea!

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Petition To Have Thread Limit in OT Removed

Originally posted by DaShi
2. Most posters don't post more than a thread a day or less. I, myself, only post a few a month, usually grouped around the same time period, when I have free time.

So it's not a problem for you. Why are you raising the issue?

Originally posted by DaShi
One day a poster may have three topics they have time to discuss.

You can always ask somebody else to start a thread for you. This has been done numerous times before.

[lord of the mark]

i think the thread limit is good. It counters SPAMMING.

[Lancer]

I suggest that no more than two of my threads be deleted in a day.

[Verto]

Who cares? For the love of god, just fix the Go(N) button!

[Agathon]

Originally posted by rah

And finally, I really don't like banning people and will do everything possible before doing it. I don't like banning people, it is not fun and creates paperwork.

See.... that Twins movie was right...

I agree the rule should stay and that third threads should be tolerated in extreme circumstances, as they are now.

For example: Gonadstripper6 posts his two threads and then a tornado hits his house, so he posts a third about his experiences.

The moderation here is pretty good by comparative standards. I've been banned for some things I considered unbanworthy, and merely warned for some things that in retrospect were probably over the line.... but them's the breaks in life.

Moderation has improved noticeably lately. I mean that Ming has stopped sending me all caps PMs. I hate all caps.