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The Peyton Manning debate

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  • Too bad being young and playing under Peyton Manning didn't do Jim Sorgi and Curtis Painter much good.
    "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
    "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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    • Curtis Painter didn't really have the same scenario, and to cite Jim Sorgi illustrates Ming's point in his recent argument with you.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
        Curtis Painter didn't really have the same scenario, and to cite Jim Sorgi illustrates Ming's point in his recent argument with you.
        What point? He called me a jackass. What is being a jackass about citing Jim Sorgi?
        "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
        "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

        Comment


        • You mean other than never really doing anything? Of course, he met expectations. There really weren't any.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
            You mean other than never really doing anything? Of course, he met expectations. There really weren't any.
            A drafted player out of Division I Wisconsin, Sorgi's stock was about comparable as Curtis Painter's. Both had low expectations, much lower than Tebow's or Jake Locker's, but let's not imagine that being on the bench behind Peyton Manning means you learn and improve or that Peyton is a good teacher/mentor. There's been no evidence for it so far, since neither Painter nor Sorgi have shown anything.

            But Sorgi hasn't even played to show if he's good or bad, you ask? Well, as a FA, Sorgi would've had the opportunity to compete for a starting job somewhere if he were that good because scouts and teams would have seen it. Matt Schaub played as sparingly as Sorgi did but he was seen as being starting caliber. Charlie Whitehurst never even set foot on the field yet the Seahawks were (wrongly) confident enough to trade to get him and pay him. If Sorgi had shown he was even starting caliber, he would have signed on to compete for a starting job somewhere. Instead, only the Manning connection could save him and he signed briefly with the Giants as a backup.

            Whoever is behind Peyton Manning wherever he goes may learn, improve, and/or Peyton may be a great mentor (his mentoring could be independent of the ability of his mentee; a teacher's effectiveness can be limited by the student's capacity; maybe Sorgi and Painter just suck?)... but there's been no evidence thus far that playing behind Peyton does a QB any good.


            Summary:
            Just because a guy is elite doesn't mean he is an effective teacher. Peyton may be or he may not be. You can't assume he is because the evidence isn't there, yet. No one has come out of Peyton's tutelage and excelled.

            I am not saying he's a bad teacher. I'm just saying he's not yet proven to be a good teacher.

            Therefore, I provided a counter-point to your statement that Locker/Tebow/Smith could benefit greatly from Peyton. If that makes me a jackass, I don't know what to say to you.
            Last edited by Al B. Sure!; March 17, 2012, 18:03.
            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

            Comment


            • Mentoring? Please. I seriously doubt Peyton Manning has any intentions other than to play every down.

              I'm mystified by the suggestion that Manning was "mentoring" the likes of Painter and Sorgi. It's pretty inane to judge him on the supposed results of "tutelage" that he was almost certainly not doing. Regardless, I sincerely doubt this has any bearing on the signing.

              At the dollars he commands, Peyton Manning will be signed to do one thing only: play.
              Last edited by -Jrabbit; March 17, 2012, 19:26.
              Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
              RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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              • Originally posted by -Jrabbit View Post
                Mentoring? Please. I seriously doubt Peyton Manning has any intentions other than to play every down.

                I'm mystified by the suggestion that Manning was "mentoring" the likes of Painter and Sorgi. It's pretty inane to judge him on the supposed results of "tutelage" that he was almost certainly not doing. Regardless, I sincerely doubt this has any bearing on the signing.

                At the dollars he commands, Peyton Manning will be signed to do one thing only: play.
                I agree. Which is why I don't think Tebow/Smith/Locker will benefit much from this. Thanks for agreeing with me, Jrabbit

                We have seen mentoring take place, in the league, though. Usually it comes from a veteran backup who doesn't have to prepare 24/7 for games and can actually help the young starter. Mark Brunell has mentored Mark Sanchez, for example.

                A guy like Peyton Manning has too much work to do for himself than give thought to training another guy. If Sorgi/Painter have learned anything it was through observation, not instruction.
                "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                Comment


                • Rumor has it that Alex Smith is changing agents. His previous agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent.
                  "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                  "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                  Comment


                  • He doesn't have to say a ****ing word, if he doesn't want to. Watching him up close and personal would be better than who they've had to watch. Other than that, I couldn't disagree more that he would reject the role of mentor.
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                    Comment


                    • Letting the qb2/qb3 watch you work is not mentoring. And all I'm saying is that it's not part of the signing discussion.
                      Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                      RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                      • One thing I didn't even realize was that Jim Harbaugh-Peyton Manning connection. Jim Harbaugh started 11 games for the 1997 Indianapolis Colts, his 4th year as their QB. Peyton Manning was drafted that May and Harbaugh was traded to the Ravens.

                        Harbaugh wound up coaching at Stanford where he coached Andrew Luck... who will be replacing Manning.

                        And now, Manning may be playing under Harbaugh.


                        Have we just been inceptioned?
                        "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                        "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                        Comment


                        • Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                          • This just posted...

                            ESPN's Adam Schefter reports free agent Peyton Manning will sign with the Broncos "barring an unexpected snag in contract talks."

                            According to Schefter, Manning has directed his agent to "get a deal done with Denver." The move should soon become official. It will have wide-ranging effects across the NFL, as Denver is now expected to shop Tim Tebow while free agent Alex Smith will likely re-sign with the 49ers. From a talent standpoint, no team was offering Manning more than the 49ers, but Denver can offer a strong running game, and has a young No. 1 receiver in place in Demaryius Thomas. Outside a dome and surrounded by less familiar faces than he's used to, a 36-year-old Manning shouldn't be expected to match his historic pre-2011 production, but is still a veritable lock for top-five numbers. The move makes Denver the immediate favorites in a weak AFC West, and elevates them into the top two or three teams in the AFC.

                            Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
                            Mar 19 - 11:55 AM
                            Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                            RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                            • Now, if Smith signs with Miami, SF will have just pissed on their boots. That muffled sound you hear is Mario Manningham sobbing in a corner.
                              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post


                                Now, if Smith signs with Miami, SF will have just pissed on their boots. That muffled sound you hear is Mario Manningham sobbing in a corner.
                                Don't forget Randy Moss!

                                But no unless Smith pulls a Jay Cutler and whines like a baby, Harbaugh will give Smith a fruit-basket and he'll resign with San Fran.

                                Now where will Tebow wind up? Miami? Jacksonville?
                                "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                                "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                                Comment

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