"NFL Football is Back!" 2011 Season Thread

[Al B. Sure!]

I am aware Eli has thrown more interceptions. I'm aware his completion % is lower. I'm aware his yards per attempt are lower. Like I said, I acknowledged Rivers' gaudy stats relative to Eli's. However, until last season's 4700 yard campaign, it wasn't like Rivers was averaging Peyton Manning numbers for his career. His averages were lower than people seem to think.

Just like Ben Roethlisberger's are lower than people seem to think. For example, while Big Ben has missed games here and there, he, until last year's suspension, had played at least 15 games every year since 2006. Over that time, he averaged only 3574 yards and 23.25 TDs per 'full' season... numbers lower than Eli Manning's.

For some reason, common perception is that Philip Rivers and Roethlisberger are battling for the best in the draft class and Eli Manning is a distant 3rd. When considering their stats, at least, that isn't really accurate. Rivers pulled away statistically with his big year last year but the 3 QB's are closer than perception. And yes, Big Ben does protect the ball slightly better than Eli (3.1% INT % vs. 3.4%), but isn't as low on INTs as Rivers.

[snoopy369]

Move that target back to 2008 at least. Rivers had his best year in 2008, not 2010. More yards in 2010, sure, but nobody with a brain just uses yards... and his yards/attempt, various QB ratings, etc., actually were highest in 2008, and have been pretty similar since then - and in Peyton territory (not 2004 peyton, which is probably the best single QB season of all time, but most other years). The average time Phillip Rivers has stepped back to pass since 2008, he's gained over 8 yards - 8.4 in 2008, 8.8 in 2009, 8.7 in 2010. That's incredible, and also very consistent... 2010 saw more yards, because he had more attempts, because they didn't have nearly as good of a rushing offense in 2010. That's why Peyton throws so much, of course - as Jaguar frequently points out, the Colts rushing offense is as bad as their passing offense is good.

Eli gets the raw numbers, because he throws a lot. 500+ attempts in every year except 2008, and that's probably a good part of the reason 2008 was so successful - he didn't have to throw that often. Rivers has thrown over 500 attempts precisely once, same for Ben; and while Ben's yards per attempt are near Peyton territory (8.9, 8.9, 7.5, 7.8, 7, 8.6, 8.2), Eli's are not - two years in the 5s, two in the 6s, the two most recent years in the 7s. They're improving, and perhaps that will make a difference for his career numbers, but for the first several years Eli was in Rex Grossman territory (except Rex actually was in the 6s his whole career while he was a full time starter). But nowhere near Roeth or Rivers over his career so far.

I think Rivers is clearly the best pure QB of that draft class, and Roeth might come close when you consider his legs. Eli is not a bad QB by any means, but I'd rather have Rivers one, Roeth two, Eli three, any day. Admittedly Rivers is the one without a ring, but he's missing a lot in terms of coaching and, well, teammates compared to the others...

[Al B. Sure!]

I didn't even realize that Eli and Peyton have the exact same yards per completion (not attempt! completion) at 11.7. Peyton's more accurate but interesting that Peyton is no more of a down-field thrower than Eli is and they're both at a full yard less than Big Ben and 0.9 yards less than Rivers.

[snoopy369]

Yards per completion are not a terribly relevant stat. Even for the purposes you're attempting to use it for, there are a lot of potential issues complicating things; such as, what if Peyton is much more accurate at 7 ish yard throws; so he throws downfield more than Eli, but makes more of the midrange throws than Eli. You also don't account for YAC and systemic factors.

In general though, I think Eli _has_ to throw downfield more often, because he fails to complete the midrange passes (not only is he not as accurate as Peyton, but he doesn't have quite as good of receivers in the midrange pass category - see: Dallas Clark). A lot of QBs who are not necessarily intentionally downfield passers end up appearing to be such because of their lack of success at midrange passes.

[Al B. Sure!]

Nothing to do with anything but why does Tyler Thigpen have the longest and most in-depth wikipedia article for any backup QB I've ever seen? It's a little longer than Aaron Rodgers'.

[SlowwHand]

Eli is so funny.

First-class debate
Eli Manning said in a recent radio interview that he considers himself to be in the same class as Tom Brady as a quarterback.
Watch: Where does Eli rank?
Pick Six: Other things Eli believes
Three and out: Don't kid yourself, Eli

[Al B. Sure!]

If you could have grabbed Eli before he ran out onto the field that night of February 3, 2008 in Glendale Arizona to play Tom Brady and the 18-0 Patriots in the Super Bowl and asked him, "Is Tom Brady better than you?" what should he have said? What would you, not as a Cowboys fan, but as any fan of the game, wanted him to say?

I guess you want Romo to, if asked specifically, to say "Oh no. I suck. I'm an average QB trying to get a paycheck. That Brady guy is way better than me."

[ColdWizard]

Concussion-related injury class-action suit filed.

PHILADELPHIA -- Seven former players have sued the NFL in Philadelphia over the league's handling of concussion-related injuries, the first potential class-action lawsuit of its kind.

The players accuse the league of training players to hit with their heads, failing to properly treat them for concussions and trying to conceal for decades any links between football and brain injuries.

The plaintiffs include two-time Super Bowl champion Jim McMahon, who has said he played through five concussions but now frequently walks around "in a daze" and forgets why he entered a room.

The suit accuses the NFL of negligence and intentional misconduct in its response to the headaches, dizziness and dementia that former players have reported. The suit, filed Wednesday, seeks medical monitoring along with funds to pay for the care of injured players.

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said the league had not yet seen the lawsuit but would vigorously contest any such claims.

Players' lawyer Larry Coben of Philadelphia said one client may soon lose his home because of his health-related financial problems.

"The big issue, for us, is they were told for decades to lead with their heads," Coben told The Associated Press. "The NFL would never admit that there's any correlation (to later health problems)."

Seventy-five retired players sued the NFL last month in Los Angeles, alleging the league knew since the 1920s of the harmful effects of concussions, but concealed them from players, coaches, trainers and the public until June 2010. That suit also names helmet-maker Riddell, the NFL's official helmet supplier, as a defendant.

The federal suit filed in Philadelphia, though, is the first to seek class-action status and potentially include anyone who had played in the league and suffered a concussion or head injury.

"Our goal is much larger, perhaps more daunting," said Coben, who has previously sued over brain injuries incurred in high school football.

"We have to ultimately determine how many people are in the (legal) classes. How many people from the '70s are experiencing this, how many people from the '80s, from the '90s? And then, what are the losses?"

The other plaintiffs include Cleveland Browns offensive tackle Joe Thomas, 26; Ray Easterling, 61, a 1970s-era defensive back for the Atlanta Falcons in the 1970s; and Wayne Radloff, 50, an offensive lineman for the Falcons and San Francisco 49ers in the late 1980s.

Some plaintiffs receive benefits from the league's 88 Plan, which provides funding from the NFL and the players union to help care for players afflicted with dementia or related brain problems. However, Coben said the payments fall far short of the amount needed to replace the income of those who cannot work because of their brain injuries, or to provide the institutionalized or in-home care they need.

Radloff's wife, Garland, wants players and their wives to know they don't have to wait for an autopsy to learn if a player has suffered a brain injury, but can get diagnosed through advanced brain scans.

Her husband suffered one of his more devastating blows in September 1988, one that knocked him out cold and yielded the headline: "Falcons Say Radloff Had a Game to Remember, If Only He Could."

The Radloffs, together since his playing days at the University of Georgia and married nearly 28 years, each turned 50 this year. He suffers from dementia and other problems associated with his Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, and can no longer hold down his post-football job in real estate.

"It is a brutal way to see somebody die, and to live with it daily and the ups and downs. It's breaking our family's heart," Garland Radloff, a nursing aide who lives with her husband in Hilton Head, S.C., told The Associated Press on Thursday. She and several other wives are also named plaintiffs in the suit.

"If Wayne and I can use our situation to help others," she said, "that is what it's all about."

In a sharp about-face in late 2009, the NFL has encouraged players and their families to cooperate with the Boston University Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy, which is conducting autopsies on the brains of former athletes -- and finding disturbing evidence of brain damage in football players, boxers and a former NHL player. McMahon has agreed to leave his brain to the center.

The NFL also has issued new concussion guidelines and ordered that independent physicians determine when a player should return.

The other plaintiffs in the Philadelphia suit are Gerry Feehery, 51, a former Eagles center who played in the league from 1985 to 1989; Mike Furrey, 34, a wide receiver on several teams from 2003 to 2010; and Steve Kiner, 64, a linebacker with the Dallas Cowboys and others from 1970 to 1978.

[snoopy369]

To be fair, McMahon walked around in a daze most of the time, well before his concussions...

[Demonbinder]

To be fair, McMahon walked around in a daze most of the time, well before his concussions...

That was because he was drunk. :lol

[snoopy369]

I suspect his body actually produced alcohol as a result of too much intoxication...

[DaShi]

So much for Philly's dream team.

[Al B. Sure!]

John Beck is killing the Colts a week after Grossman demolished the Steelers

What the hell?

[Sparrowhawk]

John Beck is killing the Colts a week after Grossman demolished the Steelers

What the hell?

I call it "preseason". If they can do it to either team (or any other team that finishes above .500 this year) when the games actually count, then I will be impressed, until then.....meh.

/me

[Koyaanisqatsi]

8 years. $120m. $50m guaranteed. For a WR.

I guess the players didn't get beat up too badly on the new CBA.