Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[kittenOFchaos]

Can anyone explain why the Stormers suck so much atm?

Stormers: 15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Jean de Villiers (capt), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Louis Schreuder, 8 Nizaam Carr, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Deon Fourie, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Pat Cilliers, 2 Scarra Ntubeni, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

[kittenOFchaos]

A legend of Ireland and Munster: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22576518

Few players have won so many games at the death. Few players kick to the corners as effectively.

He was that good, that his weak/erratic defense could be ignored. I've gone with erratic as I've seen him strip many a player of the ball and he always got in the way of players charging down his channel.

I'll be interesting to see how he gets on coaching Racing Metro...which, like many French teams fails to perform on the road.

[kittenOFchaos]

Toulon steal the Heineken Cup, the game won by a try by a **** setup by Lobbe

3 ex-Sale Sharks in that team. Bruno, Lobbe and Sheridan.

[finbar]

A legend of Ireland and Munster: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22576518

I'll be interesting to see how he gets on coaching Racing Metro...which, like many French teams fails to perform on the road.

And J. Sexton probably thought he'd seen the last of the man who did very little to encourage his career. Cruel, just cruel.

Away for the weekend so didn't see either the Amlin or HC. Happy for Wilko, but, my spies tell me, it's a mystery how they won. And, apparently, D. Armitage couldn't resist being a d1ck as he scored his try.

[Havak]

Well it is a Universal constant that last one.

Toulon were very fortunate I think, a certain boot made a key difference (as it often has).

My thoughts are very much turning to saturday and I am hoping Tigers do not mess up. Certainly Saints need to play more than a half of rugby I think?

Rumour has it that Casto's prevarication meant the club had lined up the French prop as early as three months ago. All a bit bizarre.

And I was stunned to hear Wilko is on 3/4 Million sterling from Toulon. With the Premiership wage cap you would only get approx seven players on your books!!! No wonder French clubs are skewing the playing field in the Euro competitions.

[kittenOFchaos]

SkyBet were kind enough to tell me I've made £91.45 profit in the past 12 months.

Here is hoping for the next 12 months to be far more profitable as that is meager.

[finbar]

kOc, it's better than being £91.45 in the red, no?

The French player salaries seem to vary depending on what you read. Wilko's new Toulon deal is said to be £480,000 a year, down from £680,000 a year for his last contract. Sexton's RM deal is said to be £640,00 a year over two years. All courtesy of ludicrously rich sugar daddy owners. I also gather that the French clubs are dealing with the requirements to have X number of young players having their rugby educations in France by scouting places like the PIs and signing talented kids.

[Havak]

Now that sounds familiar doesn't it?

A glorious day at HQ. I indulged in my own conservative (small c!) way in kOc's passtime and won on half time margin, full time margin plus having Morris and Tuilagi as try scorers. More than doubled my meagre stake.

Hartley's defence seems to be that he was talking to Tom Youngs not Mr Barnes...good luck with such a desperate and weak defence?

*Hic* right, back to the beer....

[kittenOFchaos]

Now that sounds familiar doesn't it?

A glorious day at HQ. I indulged in my own conservative (small c!) way in kOc's passtime and won on half time margin, full time margin plus having Morris and Tuilagi as try scorers. More than doubled my meagre stake.

Hartley's defence seems to be that he was talking to Tom Youngs not Mr Barnes...good luck with such a desperate and weak defence?

*Hic* right, back to the beer....

Were you concerned at any point in that second half?

[finbar]

I thought Leicester lost concentration at times in the second half and the blow out at the end wasn't a fair reflection. That said, they were better and stronger on the day and thoroughly deserved the win. Foden was Saints' one big ongoing threat. Good to see him getting some form back. I continue to be astonished that Matty Tait isn't going to Argentina. Such a quality player. George Ford was clueless when he came on. Possibly the price you pay for so little game time. Ben Youngs did the right thing and took over running the game.

I thought Hartley had showed better self-discipline recently. He'd been cheeky, provocative, etc, things a hooker should be, but in a controlled way. Yesterday - well, it was farcical. How many times did Barnes tell Myler not to kick it straight out from the restart? I heard twice at least. Then it went downhill from there.

So not a great day for Lions hookers. Hartley will miss the tour, and Tom Youngs couldn't throw straight for nuts.

Shame that Cockerill remains the d1ck that he is. He'd seen replays of the Lawes tackle on Flood and it was patently obvious that (a) Lawes was committed and (b) the concussion was caused by Dan Cole's knee. But on and on Cockerill went with his hectoring and abuse. Lawes can be guilty of dangerous, illegal tackles but not yesterday. Austin Healey - d1ck of a person that he is - is an excellent pundit. He called it right. Cockerill makes it very hard to like Tigers. Unfortunately, Dorian West was little better. In the half-time interview he blamed Cockerill's abuse of the officials for Hartley's red card. Ignoring Myler's cretinous performance and Hartley's own stupidity.

In France, Clermont lost their Top-14 semi-final to Castres. They couldn't resurrect themselves after the HC loss last week. So that clears the way for Vern Cotter to take the Scotland job on a two-game losing streak.

[Havak]

Saints are a quality side so I freely confess to a few minutes of concern when they clawed back to 24-17 kOc. Just a few minutes.

A sober reviewing today made it clear Tigers had become headless under that sustained third quarter pressure from Saints but surprisingly it was B.Youngs who took charge and started playing the sensible options. It was also much clearer to me that the Tigers 9-10 and 10-12 link had suffered badly through lack of game time together. My word they blew some gilt-edged chances.

It was also crystal clear to me Hartley's defence of “I said it to T.Youngs” would fail as the video very clearly shows that he said it to the referee. And so it did fail. I even heard Barnes explaining to Woods that "He called me an effing cheat, I had no other option".

Do you think Myler could claim the crowd stopped him hearing the ref? Because if not he is a prize idiot?

Cockerill has serious anger management problems Finbar but he advocated eleoquently after the game and explained himself well. There is almost a dual personality there. It is possibly to hate a coach and yet admire how a team plays. And vice versa – I really like Dai Young as a person (since meeting him back in Oz in 2001) for example.

I think Mallinder's vigorous defence of his numpty hooker is the more worrying coaching behaviour, to paraphrase “I back my skipper, several of my senior players say he is innocent, so he is innocent". Eleven weeks seems fair. Mallinder seems to be a nearly man - he must be worried how many finals he has reached and lost?

Have to say I found some of the editing of Wayne Barnes wikipedia entry over the last 24 hours VERY amusing.

I have also observed rugger is an 80 minute game many times. The blow out at the end was an accurate reflection for me. Saints played high tempo high risk rugger and had nothing left in the final quarter. A twenty point margin perhaps a bit light if anything. Rugby is a cruel game in that way.

I was sorry for Elliot that the numpty meant he got pulled off. Along with Foden and Burrall I would love to see him crooss the East Midlands rubicon.

Foden and Tait had strong games. This is good for England apart from anything else.

Game highlight for me though was Niki Goneva's break – ending in the burgling of the ball by Burrall. I have no doubt the boys have fined him for that priceless numptiness.

[kittenOFchaos]

Went to my first game at Twickenham yesterday to watch England Vs Barbarians, here are my thoughts...

The Barbarians were completely out-classed, particularly in the backs. They also lacked energy...the 1st half was played at a very, very slow pace by both sides. In the end it was England that picked up the pace and took the game by a country mile. The only decent Baa-Baas were the English contingent including Tindall (cleaned up alot of crap) and Daly who played very well. England scored some pretty good tries, the props rampaged and Freddie Burns looked the business...it'll be interesting to see how they get on in South America.

Despite Wade, Yarde and Ngwenya playing, the fastest man today was the streaker. He got end to end despite 30 guys going for him. He was only caught after doing a splash dive at the other end. It was the best entertainment of the afternoon...perhaps it could become an event in it's own right.

The seats at Twickenham are tiny and the leg-room non-existent. I don't know who they're catering for...certainly not the sort of bloke that eats pies. Despite all the positives about visiting Twickenham (great view, perfect pitch) I wouldn't do so again simply due to the seating. Given how much the tickets cost, you should be comfortable. I wonder how Murrayfield does in comparison...I was quite abit shorter the last time I went there.

As for Hartley...isn't it time that the red card was changed? Someone messes up and is red carded. Couldn't we have this resulting in that player being forcibly replaced and the incident is reviewed by the citing board. The advantage would be that referees could use it more often and when they'll less certain of the facts without destroying a game.

[finbar]

Cockerill obviously has anger management problems. It's his calling card, he's famous for it. If he's not prepared to do something about it, it's time the authorities did something. He can't run around abusing officials. I don't care what he said post-match, his antics during the game are the problem. Mallinder's post-match defence of Hartley is on a different, lesser scale to Cockerill's behaviour during the game.

I have no idea why Saints took off Elliot. He and Foden were their two big threats.

I watched the first half of England-Barbarians. A pretty ordinary Baa-Baas team to begin with and they offered absolutely nothing as can often happen. A training run for England and I'm not sure that anything concrete can be taken out of the game.

[Havak]

Um, no thanks kOc. Swearing at an official should remain a red card offence with absolutely no recourse. I'd feel the same if a Tiger were guilty - Union must protect it's officials from such disrespect. Union is not kissball after all. Hartley didn't 'mess up', he called the referee an "effing cheat". Architect of his own demise and gets no sympathy from me whatsoever - he was warned by Barnes not two minutes earlier for goodness sake! I only hope he finally learns from it.

You might note he did not receive an entry level sanction - the panel dismissed his weak defence.

What stand were you in? I've always found the West Stand and North stand seating entirely comfortable - but then you might be much taller than me?

Whilst I might find Cockers OTT at times I do actually like that he feels passionate for his players. He might well face sanctions, and may very well deserve them, in future but he won't for saturday because when a player is taken off as a direct result of an incident for which a penalty was given he is actually entitled to seek clarification. He may have looked manic and even aggressive doing so to us but I think we have to accept that we none of us know what was actually said. The club certainly won't remove him whilst he keeps winning trophies. That said I am aware he might get himself involved in a unacceptable situation in future and deserve very strong sanction - I've watched him player and coach for 21 years after all - definite anger management issues.

The red card had a huge influence on the game but arguably no more than the loss of Flood. The supposition that Saints would have won without the card, rife in some quarters, is entirely risible. Hyoptheticals remain exactly that - Tigers might have won by fifty had Flood remained on the pitch (my supposition there is equally risible you see - it simply cannot be substantiated).

I'm quite annoyed that the Hartley thing has overshadowed what was actually a very good game and an excellent Tigers victory.

[finbar]

Cockerill watched the replays of the tackle. He, like most people, saw that Lawes* was committed before Toby let go of the ball. Also that Dan Cole's knee caused the concussion, not the tackle. That it happened in the aftermath of the tackle is irrelevant. Yet still Cockerill went at the officials about the lack of a card. Passion for his players is one thing, pig-headed offensiveness is another. One day the authorities will clean up his act for him.

*I also happen to think that Lawes is too often guilty of very dangerous tackles with no arms involved. Not this time. Clinical, brutal tackle that he was committed to making. As VD observed. Pity VD is such a d!ck of a person because he's an excellent analyst.

And speaking of VD, I know someone who was at the game and sitting very close to the ESPN commentary point. VD, off-mic, was staunchly pro-Tigers. On-mic, even-handed. He has learned well.

Oh, and the red card didn't cost Saints the game. Just made life harder for them. I agree that the loss of Flood impacted more on Tigers. Ford was, well, pretty embarrassing. It was a sign of Youngs' maturity that he took over running the game. A tick from me for him.