Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[LDiCesare]

That was a dreadful and ugly match indeed. Wales never played for lack of one player, and the French only had two clean breaks by Parra but yet again noone to capitalize on it.
NZ will butcher us in the final if they can get past Australia. Australia would have a few more problems (they really rely a lot on Pocock, as was shown against Ireland) but would likely win too.

[finbar]

I don't think I've ever seen a team try so hard to lose against a team with 14 men. Utterly mystifying. The backline, apart from kicking, were spectators. And unless Servat was injured, why sub him so early? The replacement hooker is all hair gel. Fair call on the red card, I thought. No malice, but there doesn't need to be. Lift a player to or past the horizontal and you have to place them down again. Poor old Warburton lifted him, realised what he'd done, panicked and dropped him, making it all even more dangerous. That aside, some of Rolland's calls were ludicrous - the first Welsh penalty for French offside was wrong, Phillips was handling the ball; and 1/2p's long-range miss was poetic justice after a Welsh player was blatantly playing the ball on the ground.

[kittenOFchaos]

A red...well, that is debatable.

Just as debatable as having someone called Alain Rolland referee France Vs Wales. Conflict of interest or what - Alain has a French dad and perhaps wanted revenge on Wales dumping Ireland out of the RWC

[MOBIUS]

My main complaint is that 17 kicking points went begging. Even just the 2 point conversion would have won the game.

Oh well, at least I made some money on my customary bet on the opposition to win...

[finbar]

Unfortunately Warburton just dropped him upside down from a height. Probably from panic. That's where it got terribly dangerous. That's red card material. Warburton shouldn't have put himself in the position in the first place but that's probably down to adrenaline. Regardless, Wales had plenty of chances to win, even if several were penalties gifted by Rolland.

[kittenOFchaos]

According to the 'Law' of the game, the referee was spot on. Makes the BBC 'pundits' seem foolish for all the fuss they were making - Gatland too. Your player messed it up for the rest of the team and your guys can't kick, suck it.

http://ht.ly/6Yd0Y

To summarise, the possible scenarios when a tackler horizontally lifts a player off the ground:

The player is lifted and then forced or “speared” into the ground. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety. A red card should be issued for this type of tackle.

For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles, it may be considered a penalty or yellow card is sufficient.

Referees and Citing Commissioners should not make their decisions based on what they consider was the intention of the offending player. Their decision should be based on an objective assessment (as per Law 10.4 (e)) of the circumstances of the tackle.

Tough job!

[kittenOFchaos]

On other news, the pointless LV= Cup starts today.

Given we've the Challenge and Heineken Cup, I see no purpose in this tournament. It would be better to have Premiership games during ex-LV weeks rather than during the Autumn Internationals or maybe even part of the 6 Nations. This year it could have meant no Premiership rugby for at least the pool stages of the RWC.

[finbar]

According to the 'Law' of the game, the referee was spot on.

Tough job!

I wouldn't do it for quids. The abuse Rolland is getting from some of the Welsh nongs on some of the rugby forums is amazing. For that matter, Gatland is making a dill of himself by saying Clerc wasn't driven into the ground hence no red card. He doesn't know the laws. And he - like the nongs on the forums - overlooks the fact that, brave as they were, the Welsh could and should have won the match regardless.

[Havak]

Well chaps I feel for Wales, I really do. Ten minutes of good rugby against NZ, 40 mins of okay rugby (and no more than that) against an imploding England and now France are in a RWC final. They need to pull off one of those famous French sublime performances to stand any chance whatsoever. Needless to say there has never been a finalist who lost two pool games before.

Still I'm not as harsh as Pienaar whose initial reaction post match was essentially thus: "Well we have the worst team in the World Cup *slight pause* and now they are in the final".

BBC pundits kOC - what feed were you getting where you are? The ITV pundits Pienaar, Dayglo and Martin Williams were all outraged (showing their ignorance of the law). Then again I felt red was harsh so I was ignorant of it too.

[kittenOFchaos]

BBC pundits kOC - what feed were you getting where you are? The ITV pundits Pienaar, Dayglo and Martin Williams were all outraged (showing their ignorance of the law). Then again I felt red was harsh so I was ignorant of it too.

I meant the ITV pundits...

I see Leceister sent a 2nd team to lose to Scarlets.

[LDiCesare]

I've been reading a lot of comments, and some guys should really cool down. Gatland and Mike Philipps to begin with.
If Gatland doesn't know the rules, he shouldn't coach. If he doesn't know a spear tackle warrants a red, then HE is to blame for his team losing. He should have read the directives and drilled his players accordingly instead of whining adterwards. Not that it would have worked, but still.
Philipps saying the French were poor? Yes, sure. When you have enough room to run towards the post so your try will be easier to convert and don't, and your team loses by 1 point which the failed conversion would have ensured, you should really shut your mouth.
I also looked the match and the statistics.
France controlled the game. They played quite badly, but still. They stole 6 balls out of the 19 welsh lineouts. They took one ball on a scrum. They missed 9 tries out of 130 when the Welsh missed 6 out of 54, that is to say the Welsh missed twice as often as the French.
France didn't score any try, and didn't have many opportunities. Because they played an ugly, safe rugby of kicking the ball away and being happy with defending their way out of the game. It's ugly, it's not the rugby I like, but it's still a win. Gatland and Philipps should just shut their mouth and respect that they were beaten. Wales was not the best team on the pitch, they were the only team that tried to attack, but just look at the lineouts and tell me the Welsh were good. With all the ball they had and all their opportunities to score, they didn't manage it, despite some quite generous penalties granted by the ref (they still committed more faults than the French by the way).

[kittenOFchaos]

Hehe, this picture really tells a story:



Over there!!!

[LDiCesare]

Indeed. It shows a player diving needlessly to score a try when one of his fellow players (see the clever one on the right?) points towards the posts, hoping he will touch down near the posts so the conversion will be easier. Ooops. Lost game.

[MOBIUS]

some guys should really cool down.

Starting with you, perhaps...

My beef is that Wales should have won fairly comfortably with only 14 players, but pissed away 17 potential points. That's what ultimately lost us the game, but why admit that when you can blame someone else...

[finbar]

If Gatland doesn't know the rules, he shouldn't coach. If he doesn't know a spear tackle warrants a red,

A technicality, but it wasn't a spear tackle. A spear tackle involves lifting the player and driving him into the ground. Warburton lifted Clerc and dropped him from a height without regard for his safety. The bold bit is in the Law and is the key to the red card. Both issues are dealt with in the Laws, both warrant red cards. Gatland is saying that it wasn't a spear tackle, hence no red card. He's ignorant of the fact that what Warburton did is also red-cardable. Gatland is also never going to admit that Wales' first and last penalties were rubbish decisions. Rolland got the red card right in my view but not a lot else. For Gatland's post-match performance you can argue passion, frustration, heat of the moment, etc, but he has never been the most gracious either winner or loser.