Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[kittenOFchaos]

Yes Italy will definitely be targeting that fixture and they should have an excellent chance of recording the victory.

I only find the Australia-Irleand fixture interesting because of both sides long history of dual personality. I think I am right in saying that Ireland have never beaten Australia anywhere but in Ireland? And not very often then. Australia newly crowned tri-nations champs and with the Reds franchise S15 champs? It is taylor made for Ireland to record a huge win against the odds maybe? If the Aussies wear white shirts and pretend to be England that is - can Ireland raise their game against anyone else?

I definitely wouldn't put any money on Ireland given the recent form of the two teams. This Australian team has the best backline in the World and a forward pack that is far more competitive than in 2007. I fancy Australia to cruise through to at least the semi-finals...and then it'll get interesting.

[finbar]

The most interesting match will be Ireland-Italy. Both nations can expect to win, and that's definitely Mallett's most important match. The Azzuri have almost beaten Ireland and lost so often that it would be justice if they finally managed to snatch a victory and reach the quarter finals. It's still a long time from now, though.

Gli Azzurri should have beaten them in the 6N and it was telling that they couldn't. Ireland were completely and utterly appalling - mishandling galore, even BOD was fumbling; diabolical discipline - their worst match of the 6N by a long way, and vastly worse than their most recent effort against England. Poor goal kicking and naive rugby in the last couple of minutes sank the Italians' chance. They still don't have a reliable goal kicker so they are always going to struggle to capitalise.

I think I am right in saying that Ireland have never beaten Australia anywhere but in Ireland? And not very often then.

The current history is 29 matches, 8 Irish wins, 1 draw, 20 Irish losses. They have beaten Australia in Oz - three times by my reckoning in the 60s and 70s - but not since 1979.

For my sins, I've signed up to The Guardian's Aviva Premiership tipping comp. My first outing this weekend has been mixed, though I'm proud to have been one of only two people to tip Exeter! They weren't hard to have under the circumstances - Tigers missing so many internationals on top of injuries to back ups, a child (albeit very promising) stepping up to start at 10, plus the fact that Tigers, for whatever mysterious reason, have had more than their share of trouble with Exeter in their (Exeter's) short time in the premiership. I actually listened to the summary of the match. Sounds like a poor game plan (even the lack of one) and even poorer defence did the damage.

This Australian team has the best backline in the World and a forward pack that is far more competitive than in 2007. I fancy Australia to cruise through to at least the semi-finals...and then it'll get interesting.

We shall see. The Wallabies have a history of these false dawns. Deans having the courage to swap Horwill for Rocky as skipper at this late stage could be crucial. Horwill's a terrific character and a natural leader. He was crucial to the Reds' efforts this year. And Rocky - as dense as a cement foundation and not a natural leader - can now concentrate on doing what he does best: running through and over people.

What has been noticeable, though, is a refreshing sign of maturity. Against both the Boks and the ABs most recently, they showed nouse enough to shelve their Harlem Globetrotter-zero percentage pass stuff when necessary and control the game via territory. That's always been a fundamental problem - lack of hard-headedness. But we shall see. I've been through too many false dawns to get my hopes seriously up.

[kittenOFchaos]

The Tigers are highly compromised at the moment by having so many International level players away in New Zealand atm, whilst teams like Exeter are pretty much at full strength. It is hardly surprising that Leceister lost...perhaps surprising that they lost by so little. Last season Leceister also managed to lose their first game to Sale...which must have taken some doing. I also note that Hodgson managed to lose his first game with Saracens.

As for Australia having many false dawns, I can't agree as this set of backs are particularly good. The weakness is still in the front row and the pack in general, but they only need to give that backline a sniff of possession to get points on the board. As for false dawns, if it were true Australia have done very well in spite of this having won the RWC twice and typically being the 2nd best team in the World. We'll see.

As for the debate about Ireland it has to be considered how poor their form has been this year apart from that amazing destruction of England in the 6 Nations. When I place bets, I do take into account the history of a side and it appears to be a pretty helpful guide. Ireland have never reached the final four in a RWC. This is despite having been blessed with many amazing players. Australia, SA, NZ, England, France, Argentina, Wales and Scotland have progressed further. Ireland are basically equivalent to Canada, Fiji and Samoa! Last RWC it was hard to fathom how poorly they played so there is every possibility they'll be just as damp a squib this time around.

[finbar]

I was talking about false Wallaby dawns in the last couple of years. Beat the ABs and the Boks - two of the top four teams in the world according to the ratings - lose to England in Australia, get tonked by them at Twickers, draw with Ireland and lose to Scotland. The massive inconsistency as opposed to years gone by - as recently as the John Eales era, for example - when consistency was a given, when if the Wallabies hit the front in a match they weren't often run down. Those were Wallaby teams with hard-headed types running the show. This, obviously, is a very young team, and it's been the absence of hard heads that, I think, has contributed to the inconsistency. That's why the pragmatism shown against the Boks and ABs recently is a good sign. It speaks of some maturity.

[finbar]

Cripes, la grenouille folle has picked a team against Japan that's (a) very sensible and (b) very good.

[Havak]

I hadn't even realised the Premiership was starting - I had forgotten the English Premiership is insane enough to plough on through the RWC.

A fair win on the field for Exeter even if they did need to tie their opponents hands behind their backs to achieve it. The contrast in missing players through call ups was a very stark one indeed. Still only a top four finish matters - the League winners seldom win the League after all.

[LDiCesare]

For my sins, I've signed up to The Guardian's Aviva Premiership tipping comp. My first outing this weekend has been mixed, though I'm proud to have been one of only two people to tip Exeter! They weren't hard to have under the circumstances - Tigers missing so many internationals on top of injuries to back ups, a child (albeit very promising) stepping up to start at 10, plus the fact that Tigers, for whatever mysterious reason, have had more than their share of trouble with Exeter in their (Exeter's) short time in the premiership. I actually listened to the summary of the match. Sounds like a poor game plan (even the lack of one) and even poorer defence did the damage.

You should be sin-binned for this. What's the point trying to be clever here? You needed only one reason to bet against the Tigers, and should be gloating about the result much more than this. One would almost pity Havak when one reads these lines of yours.

The Tigers are highly compromised at the moment by having so many International level players away in New Zealand atm, whilst teams like Exeter are pretty much at full strength. It is hardly surprising that Leceister lost...perhaps surprising that they lost by so little. Last season Leceister also managed to lose their first game to Sale...which must have taken some doing.

D** it! what about dogpiling and rubbing the wounds when they are fresh or however they call it in English? Remuez le couteau dans la plaie, mince alors! It's easy, cheap, but it's oh so satisfying and gives Havak an excuse to drink even more because we don't like him. Now look at the two pitiful lines he wrote when he could have written a ton of lines if you had had the good sense to point out that Tigers were crap and were never going to win anything this year. Hell. I should do the math to prove that, with Leicester losing all their matches during the world cup, and then half the rest because their selected players will have been wounded, they are likely to be relegated. Mmmhh... Let me try this: 0 point + 0 point = 0 points?

Cripes, la grenouille folle has picked a team against Japan that's (a) very sensible and (b) very good.

On the other hand, he's got three backs who are wounded (two of them before they even flew to NZ), so his backline choices were rather limited. The front row is, well, logical considering the players he brought, but I keep wondering why he brought Guirado... I actually manage to be be concerned that we may well lose against Japan. The funny thing is that one can expect the team to be completely changed against Canada, in order to have as few automatisms as possible against New Zealand.

[finbar]

D** it! what about dogpiling and rubbing the wounds when they are fresh or however they call it in English? Remuez le couteau dans la plaie, mince alors! It's easy, cheap, but it's oh so satisfying and gives Havak an excuse to drink even more because we don't like him. Now look at the two pitiful lines he wrote when he could have written a ton of lines if you had had the good sense to point out that Tigers were crap and were never going to win anything this year. Hell. I should do the math to prove that, with Leicester losing all their matches during the world cup, and then half the rest because their selected players will have been wounded, they are likely to be relegated. Mmmhh... Let me try this: 0 point + 0 point = 0 points?

Rubbing salt into a wound is the expression you're looking for. Yes, it's fun, but Havak is immune to it. These Apolyton rugby threads have been going - in one form or another - for 10 years or more (who said we don't have lives?) and the Leicester laddie has had more opprobrium heaped on him and his teams than - well, put it this way, Mount Everest is a pimple beside the mountain of sh*t that has been tipped on Leicester and England over more than 10 years. All of it entirely warranted, of course.

Anyway, Tigers have to front Wasps this week. A loss to the Insects will embarrass Havak more than 20,000 words of lacerating criticism from us.

Oh, and I've tipped the Insects, too. Probably the kiss of death for them.

On the other hand, he's got three backs who are wounded (two of them before they even flew to NZ), so his backline choices were rather limited.

Mmmm. Many other nations - most of all England - would kill for the backline la grenouille folle was forced to select.

I actually manage to be be concerned that we may well lose against Japan.

Very dangerous backs, the Japanese. Mighty quick, some very good skills. Lapses in defensive concentration could be costly. They have to get the ball first, though. The Italians managed to scrummage and maul them off the park to avoid an embarrassing loss.

[Havak]

Good lord, where did that decade go?

The thing is I have a filter fitted to my brain – criticism of England and Tigers doesn’t actually get through it. Either that or I don’t get worked up by the truth as much as I did as a younger man.

Our backline has improved marginally with the inclusion of Manu but one would indeed cast an envious glance at the French in that regard. Except they are French of course – were I their coach I couldn’t live with the 50% chance they would actually turn up thinking of rugby before the big games. And the 50% chance they would turn up thinking of anything else.

As for Wasps well they have hardly bled for any RWC cause this time around so no doubt they will beat us – and still end up relegation fodder. They still look like a side in the early throws of rebuilding to me.

My DVR is all set for the fun that starts tomorrow (given it opens whilst the UK is at work and kicks off properly after our pubs and clubs kick out). Too much to ask that Tonga might cause an upset – but it sure would liven up the tournament for us if they could.

[finbar]

Good lord, where did that decade go?

Terrifying, isn't it.

were I their coach

Excellent use of the subjunctive form!

[Havak]

Perish the thought it was done deliberately.

It truly is terrifying on many levels - purely regarding the rugger it genuinely seems like yesterday to me when England were thumping Romania in 2001 and I was crowing about the exciting new young back up stand off we had found. Turnstile Charlie worked out quite well for us didn't he?

My PVR is working overtime over the next 24 hours. Stuck at work for the opening fixture - bah humbug!

*What an interesting draw - if we can manage to win the group then the likely QF is France and the SF Australia. There is a therefore even a small chance we could end up as the sacrificial lambs to NZ in the final.

[Havak]

Six tries to one is certainly job done but I do wonder if NZ will be happy with what was apparently a stuttering second half showing?

And the lad who replaced Carter - those watching it (ITV have the rights so it's streaming to those souls who can watch TV at work) tell me he runs slower than I do (then again I am pretty quick heading to the pie stall!)

[finbar]

I'd've thought the bothersome thing for G. Henry was the method by which the Tongans stifled the ABs in the second half - hammering through the forwards, keeping discipline and handling together, depriving them of ball, etc. It's what the Wallabies did to them in Brisbane and the Boks did - admittedly to a lesser AB outfit than this one - in Bokland. And their tight 5 is less than stellar these days. But, give the ABs a sniff via handling error or a poor kick, and they will skewer you.

SBW off-loaded nicely but it was telling having Nonu alongside him. Nonu showed up SBW for the pretty limited (relatively speaking) overall talent that he is. Nonu has developed a keen rugby brain to match his developed skills.

Oh, and yes, Slade - the back-up 10 - is less than a twinkletoes. Good young player but the gap in class between first choice and second choice is vast. Bit like the gap between Will Genia and Luke Burgess. No, actually that gap is greater. Aaron Cruden, the only other threat to Slade as back-up, is vastly quicker, has a wider range of skills, but is flaky both in his skills and his defence.

[Havak]

40 degrees? I thought the 23 it hit here today was nice enough.

I've now watched the opening ceremony and opening game - which I rather enjoyed (not least for the way Lapassett mangles the English language). Not keen on the latest re-arrangement of World in Union however - think Dame KTK nailed that back in 91 and it should be left alone.

So the ABS are vulnerable if Carter gets crocked - but then we knew that. They are in the same boat with McCaw on the whole. I have to admit when you see them throwing those lovely wide passes, offloading crisply and running clever lines it is great stuff to watch. It would be nice to see them play attritionally when it's needed too however - but as you say the tight five is not their strongest point.

Now trying to decide if I should stay up and catch a game live....

[LDiCesare]

Japan/France was entertaining. Luckily it was before England/Argentina, otherwise I could have fallen asleep again.
I was really afrais when Japan came back 4 points from France. Parra made a good end match at 10.
Youngs for England made a nice difference for England, but even I wouldn't have kicked much worse than either kicker in that match... I hope the English don't play another match in black, that's an ugly shirt with humbers that fall away after a few mauls.