Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

Well if you can win 35-0 with the huge error count the Lions showed today it really does speak volumes about the quality of the opposition you are facing.

A couple of nice tries, Youngs solo effort in particular, but so many chances blown with sub-schoolboy handling. But all that does is make one lament the fact that big lump Phillips already has the 9 shirt tatooed on for saturday. Manu looked pretty good in the first half so he has a shout perhaps.

[finbar]

I only saw parts of the match. Rebels didn't help themselves by playing completely out of character. Lots of energy going nowhere. All that poor kicking. And it remains incredible that Dingo still sees anything in Luke Burgess. Manu did look powerful but I can't see him fitting into Gatland's idea of a team. Maybe on the bench, but does he cover enough positions? Thought SOB proved that he should certainly at least be on the bench.

[Havak]

Manu cannot cover FB but he can be fairly effective on the wing. Then again it is Gatland as you say. Personally I'd start Manu and then have Davies fresh to smack into the tired Wallaby backline later on. One big hard to stop unit for another. Does depend on needing a balanced bench though.

[kittenOFchaos]

It seems Matt Dawson can see how the Wallabies have sussed Phillips:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23029495

In fact most rugby fans can see it - why cannot Warren do so?

Matt Dawson's article was complete pants, particularly when he claimed that once Ben Youngs came on "...all of a sudden everything calmed down, people could get into position and just run the clock out and they threatened a couple of times."

If my memory serves me right, once Ben Youngs came on the Lions earnt a penalty and then it is all Australia. Australia punted one kick over and then it was simply Australia's complete and utter failure to put over two relatively simple kicks that prevented defeat. I don't attribute all this to Ben Youngs, but the Lions were utter ****e in that last 15 minutes.

[finbar]

Youngs was better than Phillips in that he provided quicker ball when the opportunities arose but that's not saying a lot. Late in the game, it was the Lions forwards - and the new tight 5 - that were found wanting.

Mixed messages from Fatland re Phillips. He's been carrying an injury for a while, apparently, but has been playing. Now they want to give him a rest. Sounds to me like an excuse for dropping his favourite son after a poor effort last week. Still, nice to see Youngs get a chance. He will trouble the Wallabies more than Phillips ever will.

I can understand Bowe for Cuthbert, Bowe is a great player. I'd always have him in front of Cuthbert. But Cuthbert on the bench? To cover one position? Feels like Fatland didn't have the heart to drop him completely after his try last week and compromises bench cover in the process. Lydiate for Croft? Well, Fatland obviously wants Lydiate to try to nullify Genia as Mowen did Phillips last week. Okay, but who is the lock cover on the bench? Croft? It's a very odd bench. Good to see SOB there, though. And very happy to see Vunipola starting.

Wallabies haven't come out of last week's injury rout too badly. Hopefully AAC's shoulder is strong enough to see him through. Tomane is a good player, more complete than Honey Badger, more of a classic winger than Ioane. If Lealliifano can stay on the pitch this week we should see a better effort from O'Connor who won't feel the need to overplay his hand. Not that he's - yet - a real 10 anyway. So back to three playmakers, with Beale joining in from full back.

[Havak]

Interesting interpretation. Dawson's is more accurate for me. The Lions organisation had gone to pot somewhat before Youngs came on - had he not I suspect matters would have been solved with a Wallaby try rather than penalty chances.

Moot in any case as Phillips has been dropped (and I am rather shocked!) with a bad knee being cited as the cover story. Ben gets his chance to prove or disprove the theorum of Dawson? That Lydiate starts ahead of O'Brien is staggering after the comparative performances against Rebels. And Croft to the bench is a bit harsh plus the absence of a specialist lock on the replacements may bite them - but then Evans and Gray have made no case whatsoever for selection?

And needs must sees Vunipola start - will the Wallabies get the upper hand in the scrum (wash my mouth out)?

Ryan Grant carries the honour of a nation on his shoulders too?

Lions team: Leigh Halfpenny, Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies, George North, Jonathan Sexton, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (c), Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Ryan Grant, Dan Cole, Tom Croft, Sean O'Brien, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Alex Cuthbert.

*edit* So what do we read into the fact the IRB are challenging the ARU over their disciplinary panel clearing their own skipper?

[finbar]

It seems to be based on legal semantics, the IRB saying that the citing officer - a Q.C. - mixed up burdens of proof with criminal law along with jumbled use of possibility and probability in the written report. Note also that the IRB waited until it was too late to stop Horwill playing tomorrow before appealing. They could easily have appealed much earlier in the week.

[Havak]

It's still extremely strange and rather unprecedented. I think there is more to it than legal semantics, particularly given how the ARU reacted.

Mr Hampton needs to be under scrutiny after Wednesdays debacle "He's a good bloke so I halved the minimum and then halved it again". Whether he was right or wrong it gives the impression of improprietary with failing to properly address foul play. There is, after all, either a minimum term or there is not. Constantly undercutting the minimum term is quite ludicrous if you think about it - better to reset the mimimum lower and remove the concept of mitigation.

I'm personally not very comfortable with the "good bloke" defence (aka the Australian defence?) as it is the act of foul play that the panels should be primarily addressing?

[finbar]

Ah well, the good bloke defence is still preferable to the ABs' good Christian defence of St Kev of Headbutts.

[Havak]

Fair point.

Every time that chap got in trouble his coaches chirped about what a great fella he is. Which is sort of not really the point in a disciplinary hearing for foul play.

My head says Wallabies tomorrow though my heart still wants Lions (naturally). I am hoping my head gets proved wrong.

Bowe certainly brings defensive qualities to the wing that Cuthbert lacks, IF his hand holds up the physicality of the contact.

[kittenOFchaos]

I'm personally not very comfortable with the "good bloke" defence (aka the Australian defence?) as it is the act of foul play that the panels should be primarily addressing?

Am I right in thinking that Horwill has alot of form for stamping?

[kittenOFchaos]

Am I right in thinking that Horwill has alot of form for stamping?

23 minutes in, Lions starting to make alot of silly decisions and Vunipola needs hauling off, he simply can't perform his primary function.

Edit: Good job Vunipola...why didn't you do that earlier?

[Havak]

Although big respect to the Aussie tighthead who is making Vunipola look guilty but is actually destabilising the scrums on Lions put in himself. Completely fooling Joubert. Notice how the scrums are ROCK SOLID on the Aussie put in. Crafty work by the TH.

*few minutes to half time. What on earth is Vunipola doing lurking at first receiver so often??? Horses for darn courses guys!

*HT Lions have done well to be leading. More ball and possession but little to show for it. A far more conservative game from B&I than last weekend. I think given the number of cynical penalties from Oz a yellow card may feature? Not the spectacle of last week but a great game for tension.

[kittenOFchaos]

Completely fooling Joubert. s!

We all saw Vunipola bent double, not taking the hit, Joubert was right to ping him. I'm impressed that the Lions have sorted out the scrum, but it doesn't appear that Vunipola is scrummaging 'properly'.

Completely impartial (ahem), bring on a Scot

[Havak]

You and Joubert saw that - I'm with Brian Moore on it instead.

Typical Wallaby burglary job there - and they are now favourites (red hotly so) next week.