Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

And today a number of players have finished all speculation about their Test chances with an emphatic "NO". Best, Evans and O'Brien need to face the fact they will face Rebels and can then safely fly home. And O'Brien was favourite for the six shirt as the tour commenced.

The Lions look rather like a group of blokes who have never played together - strange that.

[finbar]

Not surprised that the Brumbies outmuscled them. Brumbies have some decent forwards and well drilled. And Sio, the young LH, is a terrific prospect. For that matter, Kuridrani, the 13 is another one. About 22, 6' 5" and 16 stone with good skills. Youngs was poor behind poor forwards, Hogg isn't good enough at 10 - why should he be? He never plays there! Fatland will probably use Youngs' form today as a reason to put Murray on the bench but Murray was little better when he came on. I'd start Youngs. But Fatland won't. Ah well, roll on the weekend.

[Havak]

I don't share the sentiment to be honest. I fear that the Wallabies are going to teach Wales a real lesson.

[finbar]

Usually reliable media sources have this as the Wallabies line-up for Saturday:

Benn Robinson, Stephen Moore, Ben Alexander, James Horwill (c), Kane Douglas, Ben Mowen, Michael Hooper, Wycliff Palu,Will Genia, James O'Connor, Digby Ioane, Christian Lealiifano, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Israel Folau, Berrick Barnes.

If true, Dingo has had the nerve to start two debutants. Lealiifano is a very promising young 10/12 and deadly goal kicker. Folau, from RL, has played 15 for the Tahs all season. Big, very strong, very quick, he has adapted to the real game astonishingly well. Scored a shedload of tries in S15. I'm not convinced by O'Connor at 10. Fabulously skilled player but not a natural 10. Can be guilty of drifting with the pill, cutting down others' space. Still, if this team is the true one, there are three playmakers - O'Connor, Lealiifano and Barnes. Nice option to have. Kurtley Beale will likely be on the bench covering 10 and 15.

[finbar]

Stupid double post. Stupid software.

[Havak]

Suggesting a high tempo game plan where they will look to put width on the ball and pull the Lions defence around?

My point about 8 welsh starters is slightly undermined by the fact Graham Henry started 8 Englishmen in Brisbane in 2001. But there was a fundamental difference then - England were third in the world rankings then and climbing towards becoming number 1 the next year. Someone really needs to show Warren where Wales are in the rankings right now - because they are not sitting where they are accidentally, it is a fully warranted position. And yes England are above them - it is remarkable what a win over NZ can do. And yes France are above them too, it is equally remarkable what a loss to Japan can do. Am I enjoying that a little too much?

*added* And I'm starting to doubt if he can find space for any Scottish player at all. If he feels obliged then probably Hogg on the bench meaning Kearney unluckily misses out. Maitland has not done much wrong but hasn't been used as a prospective test player so it would be a huge surprise to see him included - unless Warrne wants to wind Aussies up by playing a Kiwi? And sadly Gray has failed to set down any kind of marker at all - in fact he has gone backwards as the tour has gone on? Seriously can he justify picking any Scot on form?

I hate to say it but I think a tight direct gameplan would see the Lions triumph, I think they have the quality in the pack to over-match that Wallaby pack. I am sure Stephen Moore is a good bloke but I have never rated him an international class hooker. The two Ben(n)s are solid enough but again outmatched for me, assuming as you pointed out that Vunipola (presumably) scrummages legally and avoids seeing yellow. Any Lions engine room combination is at least a match for the Wallaby one. And we all know about the big absence in the Wallaby loosies - so perhaps Gatland can risk a clearly <100% Warburton? Croft has hit a rich vein of form at exactly the right time again (as he did in 2009).

The Brumbies result could work for the Lions if they use it correctly - to blow away any over-confidence that might have crept in from the opposed training runs.

The Lions side is named tomorrow - so we shall see.

*edit* The Chief Executive of the WRU is a bit of a numpty isn't he? The host nations always make the bulk of the profit from rugby tours - how does he think the revenue from Wales Autumn fixtures get divvied up? What a t***.

[finbar]

Apparently that Wallabies team is the go. Playmakers galore but getting the ball wide hasn't been Dingo's preferred option for a long time. Even when he's had the players available. So we shall see. I think one of the keys will be who Fatland goes with in his back row. Even without Pocock, that's a very strong Wallaby back row, and Liam Gill on the bench is no slouch either.

[Havak]

Welll Heaslip and Croft are certainly in on merit but there is a slight whiff around sliced-loaf that he is only in due to the armband. Still it is an interesting match up between the loosies?

So I missed Corbisiero - and I suspect Deans has. The Wallabies will now be furiously analysing him (and he only played against Country) to see how the Aussie coalface can make the ref think he is infringing rather than them (as old daft Bob said the Lions cheat - the Wallabies are whiter than the driven snow of course).

British & Irish Lions starting XV: Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Alex Cuthbert (Wales), Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland), Jonathan Davies (Wales), George North (Wales), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Mike Phillips (Wales); Alex Corbisiero (England), Tom Youngs (England), Adam Jones (Wales), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Paul O'Connell (Ireland), Tom Croft (England), Sam Warburton (Wales, capt), Jamie Heaslip (Ireland).

Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Wales), Mako Vunipola (England), Dan Cole (England), Geoff Parling (England), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Ben Youngs (England), Owen Farrell (England), Sean Maitland (Scotland).

Interesting and rather an English bench? Note the political decision to play a Scot (well a Kiwi). Cole I suspect gets his spot due to the dearth of TH options? Best of course eliminated himself from the hooker running against ACT. I'm not entirely sure I would have gone Lydiate over O'Brien.

I'm pleased to see Ben and Geoff on the bench of course, and Farrell had to be there really. But do you think they are expecting rain? It is a bench bereft of backs options with Farrell and Maitland covering 10-15 between them.

Such a shame for Gray - in 2011 he looked every inch a Lions test player. For whatever reason the move to Sale has not just stalled his progression but reversed it somewhat? Is he off to France next season? That could be the end of his international career.

Oh and did you see Castro did go to Toulon in the end? Is their mission statement to sign absolutely every player so no one is left to oppose them?

[finbar]

Beats me what Lydiate is doing there apart from Fatland's preference for Welsh. SOB hasn't had an outstanding tour but his strength and mobility off the bench would bother me a lot more than Lydiate who is basically a tackler. A very good one, but doesn't offer a lot more later in the game. Hopefully Corbisiero will be made to scrummage legally too. Another one fond of driving sideways. You also have to wonder about his match fitness. Seems to be a shortage of ball carriers in the Lions pack, too. Crofty is going to have to do a lot of grunt work in lieu of lurking on the wing.

Still, Cutherbert is there. That makes my day. The Wallabies will have seen Quade exploiting Cutherbert's shortcomings against the Reds. Lealiifano at 12, in particular, is a particularly deft kicker. Should be fun to watch.

Castro to Toulon? Hadn't seen that. What Toulon actually need is some exciting some youth.

[kittenOFchaos]

Such a shame for Gray - in 2011 he looked every inch a Lions test player. For whatever reason the move to Sale has not just stalled his progression but reversed it somewhat? Is he off to France next season? That could be the end of his international career.

Whilst Gray hasn't progressed as expected, it is a nonsense to suggest his International career with Scotland is in any doubt.

Regarding the selections made by Gatland, I think the test squad looks good but I'm angry about his selections for the Brumbies.

I said right from the off that it was a nonsense to bring only two fly-halves and worse to put Hogg into that position. I also think it was brutal to call up Wade, 36, Barrett and Williams at the last moment and then throw them right into the fray...jet-lagged and with little time to gel...genius. Worse, Gatland did nothing to rectify the malfunctioning pack till VERY late in that game. If things are going wrong on Saturday, will he act?

Edit: Hogg for Maitland - that would cover the back division. 2p is bound to knock himself out.

[finbar]

Do Scotland select overseas-based players? It's too early in the morning for me to think. I think that was Havak's point anyway.

Hogg has been royally screwed on the tour by being used mainly as a makeshift 10. Unfair on the lad. Fatland strikes again.

[Havak]

The Scots have no firm policy in that regard – cannot really afford it given their dearth of talent - BUT there is a well established pattern of players moving to France no longer featuring in their national coaches plans for most of the home nations.

My other point was really that he needs to find some form again – even a one eyed Scot (and I am NOT suggesting that kOc is such) cannot deny that he is currently well off the pace. He was simply never in contention for a Brisbane test spot after three shaky appearances on this tour (in his own position!). A move to France is a huge risk for him as it could take him off the radar totally, unless he does find his old form in which case of course no coach could ignore him.

The RealPolitik of French clubs at the moment is that they call the shots – they expect to be their players priority and have the financial muscle to achieve that.

PlanetRugby announced Castro’s move to Toulon as confirmed, Aunty Beeb has yet to do so but then she is very focused on the Lions right now.
I agree with you kOc that Warren treated his sacrifical lambs very poorly. ACT were top of the Aussie conference and a very cohesive and effective UNIT (key word). He threw a bunch of players together and hoped – and it almost worked but for a few kicks going begging and using bench options earlier.

That said I understand why Fatland is more focused on Brisbane. Very important to hit the ground running, the 89 tour remains the only one to recover from losing the first test to win the series.

I think I would have gone Hogg rather than Maitland too.

I see the referee is Pollock tomorrow – a pretty decent ref. I also see the PR preview sees the scrum half clash as critical with the 6’3” flanker expected to sit on Genia.

They have pitched for Lions by 5? Seems reasonable on the face of it?

As for NZ any other team would rotate youngsters in with a series in the bag but I see they are loading the squad with experience instead? NZ by 18? Or 28?

Poor old France – it’s been a tough year for them.

HalfPenny looks fit as the proverbial butchers dog to me - but I would expect him to come under attention from the Aussies. They would be mad not to try and get a few hits in on him and this tour he has been the consumate scoreboard ticker.

[Havak]

At half time Folau and North get the plaudits but Genia is the genius on the field. Best player in World rugby right now? Looks uncomfortable with the sweeping they have him doing though - otherwise it is a masterclass from the boy?

Can't call this - the Lions have the power but the Wlaalbies always look dangerous with ball in hand.

[finbar]

Genia let himself down a couple of times with some poor options later but still a fabulous player. Made Phillips look like the lump that he is. Folau is just scarily talented. His first season of rugby.

Lealiifano was going to be the goal kicker. If it was Dingo's idea to have O'Connor kicking after Lealiifano went off, blame Dingo for the defeat. O'Connor is vastly less reliable than Berrick Barnes. A very costly 8 points that O'Connor missed. Still, can't complain about the Wallaby effort. Losing four backs, an openside playing at 12 for almost half a game, replacement 9 on the wing.

What I think I most enjoyed, though, was seeing the Lions' much vaunted replacement props being pushed around by the Wallabies' replacement props. I giggled.

Lions? Phillips is rubbish, Youngs has to start. Davies isn't a 12 but we knew that. Wallaby back row comfortably outplayed the Lions back row. Warburton AWOL. In fact, a couple of scrum disasters aside, the entire Wallaby pack outplayed the Lions. Fatland has some thinking to do.

I'm not sure where the Wallabies will find a backline for next week.

[Havak]

And I hope they don't if you will forgive me saying so.

Poor decvision making and poor discipline nearly cost the Lions that test. They will improve - with a different line up - but then so will the opposition. Though the Wallabies do have a backline problem now?

The Lions failed to test the flanker in the centres - one of a myriad of tactical failures. I am hoping Manu has some chance of being fit - not a top class handling 12 but him and BOD worked well as he punched holes and gave BOD ball behind the oppo defensive line.

I would hope Phillips has played himself out the matchday squads let alone the starting XV. Not the worst game I have seen from him (so many to choose from) but a very very poor one. You see Warren the Wallabies are not the Barbarians - why that needs to be spelt out to you I do not know!

The big call is, as you hinted, that Fatland has to drop his test captain. Were I him I might be calling Ben Morgan too - heaslip had a weak game and the Isalnder who plays for Wales doesn't convince me there either.

Do you think Cole has failed to adjust to the new scrummaging protocol? He is a shadow of himself just 18 months ago. Jones looked old and weary to be so issues at TH. And a replacement LH who can scrummage would be nice too. No good being a monster in the loose if you cannot do the bread and butter job.

Felt for the lad with that last kick btw - and I hardly EVER feel sympathy for anyone in that shirt.

Now I hardly ever quote this man btw but I had the misfortune to choose Talksport commentary to go with my stream and Campese was colour - he made this point, Pollock was a homer. Every 50/50 call went the home sides way. Your riposte?