Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

Um, no thanks kOc. Swearing at an official should remain a red card offence with absolutely no recourse. I'd feel the same if a Tiger were guilty - Union must protect it's officials from such disrespect. Union is not kissball after all. Hartley didn't 'mess up', he called the referee an "effing cheat". Architect of his own demise and gets no sympathy from me whatsoever - he was warned by Barnes not two minutes earlier for goodness sake! I only hope he finally learns from it.

You might note he did not receive an entry level sanction - the panel dismissed his weak defence.

What stand were you in? I've always found the West Stand and North stand seating entirely comfortable - but then you might be much taller than me?

Whilst I might find Cockers OTT at times I do actually like that he feels passionate for his players. He might well face sanctions, and may very well deserve them, in future but he won't for saturday because when a player is taken off as a direct result of an incident for which a penalty was given he is actually entitled to seek clarification. He may have looked manic and even aggressive doing so to us but I think we have to accept that we none of us know what was actually said. The club certainly won't remove him whilst he keeps winning trophies. That said I am aware he might get himself involved in a unacceptable situation in future and deserve very strong sanction - I've watched him player and coach for 21 years after all - definite anger management issues.

The red card had a huge influence on the game but arguably no more than the loss of Flood. The supposition that Saints would have won without the card, rife in some quarters, is entirely risible. Hyoptheticals remain exactly that - Tigers might have won by fifty had Flood remained on the pitch (my supposition there is equally risible you see - it simply cannot be substantiated).

I'm quite annoyed that the Hartley thing has overshadowed what was actually a very good game and an excellent Tigers victory.

[finbar]

Cockerill watched the replays of the tackle. He, like most people, saw that Lawes* was committed before Toby let go of the ball. Also that Dan Cole's knee caused the concussion, not the tackle. That it happened in the aftermath of the tackle is irrelevant. Yet still Cockerill went at the officials about the lack of a card. Passion for his players is one thing, pig-headed offensiveness is another. One day the authorities will clean up his act for him.

*I also happen to think that Lawes is too often guilty of very dangerous tackles with no arms involved. Not this time. Clinical, brutal tackle that he was committed to making. As VD observed. Pity VD is such a d!ck of a person because he's an excellent analyst.

And speaking of VD, I know someone who was at the game and sitting very close to the ESPN commentary point. VD, off-mic, was staunchly pro-Tigers. On-mic, even-handed. He has learned well.

Oh, and the red card didn't cost Saints the game. Just made life harder for them. I agree that the loss of Flood impacted more on Tigers. Ford was, well, pretty embarrassing. It was a sign of Youngs' maturity that he took over running the game. A tick from me for him.

[kittenOFchaos]

What stand were you in? I've always found the West Stand and North stand seating entirely comfortable - but then you might be much taller than me?

East Stand.

In terms of dimensions, I'm an overweight Richie McCaw, but far better looking

[finbar]

And you cheat at the breakdown?

The SRU manage to do it again. Sign a new coach, and a pretty good one, at least at club level, but he won't be available to do the job for another 12 months. Most odd.

[kittenOFchaos]

And you cheat at the breakdown?

Me > Wayne Barnes > Richie McCaw cheating

The SRU manage to do it again. Sign a new coach, and a pretty good one, at least at club level, but he won't be available to do the job for another 12 months. Most odd.

Beggars can't be choosers. I'll be interesting to see what impact he can have. I'm very optimistic that we've a decent bunch of players available to us at this time, with the right game-plan Scotland could be a team to be reckoned with.

[finbar]

Yes, but you've got Scott Johnson in the meantime.

[Havak]

Oh that is a brutally funny riposte there Finbar.

Better an overweight Richie McCaw than a slightly underweight Marcos Ayerza (with no hair). But at least I fit the seats in HQ height wise.
The rows in the East stand must be closer together than I am used to.

I’m just wondering who will bring Cockers to task Finbar – the RFU are notorious bottlers in such things?
Reading the comments from Hartley’s panel was very interesting – they accused him of changing his story after the video showed clearly – and it did indeed show very clearly – that his initial account was total bunkum. Hartley changed his story to claiming that he was talking to his own prop, stood between him and Mr Barnes, about Tom Youngs who was still on the floor. It utterly lacked credibility and the panel told him so. All in all he has been very stupid – I think when it dawned on him that the Lions had gone for him he felt the need to present this desperate defence.

The moral is clear – think what you like about the referee but never actually say it.

In better news Manu has signed a new Tigers deal – rumoured to be three years – today. Given the salary cap is £4.5 million it is remarkable that English clubs can retain the likes of Manu. He clearly wants to win silverware as otherwise I am sure a lucrative French contract would have been available.

Apparently this young fly half we have brought in from Scarlets is highly promising – Owen Williams – but I have never seen him (or indeed knowingly seen either of our French signings).

Now onto the Lions – I am hoping the fact the Lions for Hong Kong includes 9 taffs means that the test sides will not. But if Gatland is determined
to be humiliated then he should pick 9 taffs for Brisbane on 22nd June too. 9 taffs, 3 scots, 2 English and just one Irishman in the starting line up? Frankly Fatland deserves to lose this one – although I doubt the Barbs can pull it off much as I would love to see them do so.

Heh Warren these are the same Welsh guys that set the record of eight consecutive losses recently – one good showing against England has not made them world class. Perhaps, just perhaps, you ought to be picking some players with experience of beating SANZAR sides? Oh sorry I forgot – that would mean almost no welshmen wouldn’t it?

More seriously he cannot honestly make such a skewed and welsh loaded pick for the bigger games - can he???? If he does it means he does not get what the Lions are supposed to be!

I was going to have a little wager backing the Lions but in all honesty I cannot bring myself to support the side as named.

[kittenOFchaos]

More seriously he cannot honestly make such a skewed and welsh loaded pick for the bigger games - can he???? If he does it means he does not get what the Lions are supposed to be!

Many of the top English and Irish players are being rested following club competition.

I'm pleased that Hogg and Maitland are getting a start and hope they can make a strong case for inclusion in the team for the two tests.

Poor Stevens, even with reduced competition he isn't getting a start. I think he is there to help morale in the dirt-tracking team.

[kittenOFchaos]

Oh yes, the streaker that graced our view at England Vs the Barbarians

[finbar]

Now onto the Lions – I am hoping the fact the Lions for Hong Kong includes 9 taffs means that the test sides will not ...

... he cannot honestly make such a skewed and welsh loaded pick for the bigger games - can he???? If he does it means he does not get what the Lions are supposed to be!

As kOc says, the HK team selection is - and was always going to be - predicated on availability. Anyone involved in the Aviva and Rabies finals wasn't going to be selected for obvious reasons.

As to the bigger question of whether Fatland will remain Welsh-centric for the series itself, who knows? I would put money on surrogate flanker Phillips starting at 9 and the Wallabies will be giggling. They know his game backwards and inside out and he has never seriously troubled them. The little fat Leicester 9 is another matter altogether.

[Havak]

I'd actually forgotten that the minor league had it's final last weekend too - of course with Munster missing out POC was available for HK duties. In fact he has picked all the Munster players with them not competing for any honours this year.

And with a nod to kOc I agree that surely he could have found a space for the cocaine prop from Sarries?

As for Phillips I think he is a certainty. I fear Fatland massively over-rates him.

The little fat Tigers 9 showed remarkable maturity last weekend - compared to the tendency of Phillips to go awol under pressure I know who I'd want in the 9 shirt, but then I am hardly neutral.

[Havak]

And as Phillips had a fantastic game aginst a Baa-baas side that failed to turn up he is definitely now a shoe in. Still Youngs will be on the bench.

And well done Castres - I'd backed Toulon to win easily. Still I had a couple of quid on Delon to score a try (I know he is a doofus - but still a great strike runner) so he saved my bacon. Cuthbert and a margin of over 13 brought home more bacon. As did a handicap Lions win. My this betting thing is fun when you win (though believe me we are talking very small stakes and dosh I can afford to write off).

What really bugs me is I came within a click of having POC to score a try....

[kittenOFchaos]

And as Phillips had a fantastic game aginst a Baa-baas side that failed to turn up he is definitely now a shoe in. Still Youngs will be on the bench.

And well done Castres - I'd backed Toulon to win easily. Still I had a couple of quid on Delon to score a try (I know he is a doofus - but still a great strike runner) so he saved my bacon. Cuthbert and a margin of over 13 brought home more bacon. As did a handicap Lions win. My this betting thing is fun when you win (though believe me we are talking very small stakes and dosh I can afford to write off).

What really bugs me is I came within a click of having POC to score a try....

I've created a monster Feel free to share your tips with me...

The bookmakers can't have done well this weekend. -13 for the Lions to win at 1/1 was a gift...yet one I didn't take advantage of. My money was behind Hogg and a Lions win. Had the passes to him being a bit better, then I'd have been laughing. I'm totally kicking myself for not putting money on a Lions win (by 13) and Cuthbert to score...such a sensible choice!

[Havak]

I'm very conservative. (though I had Hogg as a try scorer too - the kid has talent).

I'd hate to be responsible for you losing money though - I pick on instinct (which in the long run will see me lose I suspect).

Strange to see the Lions as slight favourites for Brisbane - might be becuase the Aussies cannot seem to find and keep 25 blokes fit? Ioane is a big loss to them. Actually looking at their squad I can see why the Lions are slight favourites. Are they seriously still rating Stephen Moore as an international hooker (I realise Polota-Nau is injured)?

[finbar]

As a friend of mine put it, TPN's best games are better than Moore's, Moore's average games are better than TPN's average games. TPN can go AWOL, if you'll pardon all the acronyms. Beyond those two, there isn't much to choose from. S. Fainga'a is probably third choice and he's very average.

The injuries are making a serious dent in the Wallabies across the board. I thought they'd suffered their injury Annus horribilis last year. Higginbotham could be one of the biggest losses. He hasn't stepped up to Test level before this but he's had a very, very impressive S15 season thus far. Captaincy at the Rebels seems to have matured him. There seems to be a chance he'll take part later in the series.

Ioane will be a loss but there are a couple of very quick, strong replacements, even if they lack experience. Dingo has called up Nick Phipps to replace Ioane. A 9 to replace a wing. I suspect, though, that it's only Dingo anointing Phipps as the 9 benchwarmer. Ridiculous, if so. Nic White of the Brumbies is a class above Phipps. Dingo playing his favourites yet again.

I only saw the first half of the Baa-Baas game. Farrell Jnr's temperament is looking increasingly suspect. His mind wasn't properly on the game even before the Brits punch. Which was bizarre in itself. I think Farrell is going to be seriously exposed on this tour, making the lack of 10 back up even odder. There's no doubt Wilko will turn up at some stage but, as fond as I am of Wilko, Test rugby is a whole different scenario to Top-14. He shines at Toulon in a very specific game context. Which is far from Test rugby.