Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

[Havak]

Your point about England is well taken but in the immediate run in for domestic matters it gives Sarries and Quins a great deal to think about. In Sarries case if you can get your nose in front and force them to play a much looser game than they prefer to then they can be thoroughly ripped apart.

The chasing pack will have watched both these European humiliations with some interest I suspect.

Leinster go to Clermont I believe? That is quite the tie. The other semi-final is the tale of the underdogs.

[finbar]

What bothers me is that Sarries aren't exposed nearly enough in the Premiership. I don't think it's a vintage Premiership period.

Yes, you'd have to say the final - or what should be the final - is being played next week in France. Though at Bordeaux, not Clermont, which is one thing in Leinster's favour. Clermont at Clermont can be a monstrous proposition. You'd have to think Ulster will roll the Scots, though how Ferris pulls up after the weekend will be crucial.

Sarries really are an unpleasant mob. Utterly outplayed yesterday, the coach could only grizzle about the salary cap. Churlish, graceless. Toulouse have probably the biggest budget of the lot and it didn't stop Edinburgh.

[Havak]

Churlish and graceless is rather the Saracens way unfortunately.

[finbar]

Wasps into receivership? I can hear the giggling from the East Midlands from here.

[kittenOFchaos]

Sarries really are an unpleasant mob. Utterly outplayed yesterday, the coach could only grizzle about the salary cap. Churlish, graceless. Toulouse have probably the biggest budget of the lot and it didn't stop Edinburgh.

I bet his players aren't too happy with his comments either. It indicates that he thinks he could buy better.

Rougerie was immense this weekend - when he gets his mindset right he is formidable and he was my MOTM. Parra however should be cited for two blatant pieces of play-acting - far more should be done post-match to name, shame and even cite such actions.

In terms of my betting, I did great with the Heineken Cup but totally ofset it with disasterous betting on the Super 15. I'm really not reading that competition well atm.

Toulouse - predictably crap away from home. But, crap as they were there was no reason for them to lose especially when Edinburgh went down to 13 men (brainless acts by Jacobson and Rennie), but even then Toulouse refused to exert pressure. I totally agree with you Finbar that Ulster should brush Edinburgh aside without much difficulty.

As discussed earlier - the European Cups show where the Premiership and where England will be. The 6 Nations shouldn't delude us. England struggled to beat Italy and Scotland and almost lost to a totally disfunctional French side. The acid test will be the tour to the SH - be afraid, be very afraid.

[finbar]

I'd agree with that. In England's favour, the Boks are rebuilding, but I fear for the limited thinking of the newly-installed management. Sarries writ large (or small, whatever).

Rougerie was, indeed, outstanding. And it's a shame Parra carries on with his Wendyball diving. He's too good a player to have to do it.

Afoa has been cited for his tackle. Hardly a surprise, and he'll probably get a month. Ulster will miss him terribly, particularly if they get past the Scots.

[kittenOFchaos]

This is what Ireland should be doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yOj...ayer_embedded#!

That was beautiful.

As was this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncwiJ...layer_embedded

[finbar]

It's what Ireland should be doing but won't under Kidney while he persists in effectively negating a lot of his player talent with tactics that don't maximise that talent. Sexton the prime example. Sexton can run, pass, and generally involve a backline. Kidney not only wants him to be a ROG clone, he continually hangs the ROG axe over Sexton's head. While Kidney is around, Ireland will remain promise unfulfilled.

[finbar]

Farrell Snr turns down a job with England. If someone with imagination, guile, nouse and international experience is appointed in his place, England have a show of real improvement. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[finbar]

God bless you and your Sale Sharks, kOc, I tipped them. With my heart in my mouth. I also tipped Treviso, too. Happy days. Thus far.

[finbar]

How I hate tipping Leicester. It means I have to support the bustards. Even I'm not perverse enough - and I'm mightily perverse - to tip a team and barrack against them. Saints were poor, very poor. Shoddy defence, handling all over the shop, just totally out of sorts. Big Leicester effort this season to come back from where they were. I suspect it will all boil down to Leicester -v- Quins.

And Glaws? Cripes. Redpath might be better off at Sale as the rumours had it this week. Falcons -v- Wasps should be a corker.

[finbar]

Glaws cost me tipping the Aviva card!

[Havak]

One is always happy to win at Franklins as it's rarity makes it something to savour. It very much does come down to Quins v Tigers as we face them away in the next round before meeting our old enemies Bath at home in the last round.

Wasps going into administration doesn't make me laugh - I am waiting for the winding up order before I let myself enjoy it fully. There is a chink of light for Falcons - I hope they can crack it wide open now. Wasps for the drop and out of business? All my Christmases at once.

I find that focus kOc places on the European cups as a barometer of national form rather confusing I have to say. So cash rich Irish provinces and French clubs with huge proportions of foreign talent on their books somehow indicate that where England finished in the 6N was a faux result? Limited as they were at times England came second on merit in the 6N because, and this is the crucial thing to keep in mind, France and Ireland performed worse on the field of play on a consistent basis when fielding players only of their own nationaility. That is international rugby for you.

I felt the 6N final standings accurately represented the comparative performances myself.

That said England will struggle in RSA I am sure. Better sides than them have done so. However apart from Wales no one else in the 6N would have a better shot of scoring a win there I suspect. And England do have an advantage over Wales in that they have actually beaten the Boks. Quite a few times in fact.

Ireland in particular have problems as their hooker is hugely over-rated and their props amongst the worst in the tournament. If England can exploit that god help them on their summer tour! The fact Ireland ambushed Australia at the RWC has made some observers forget the deep rooted problems they displayed before that tournament and the 6N brought those home to roost. Irish sides that struggle in the set pieces don't tend to win games (in short Ireland are not NZ or Oz).

[kittenOFchaos]

So cash rich Irish provinces and French clubs with huge proportions of foreign talent on their books somehow indicate that where England finished in the 6N was a faux result?

As I've shown previously, so-called English clubs have FAR more foreign players than the Irish clubs so I don't know why you're saying this. Additionally the England team is pretty much made of foreigners and they don't have the excuse Scotland has of a small pool of professional players. Apart from Ronin O'Gara, I think most of the Irish team are home-grown and as discussed earlier in this thread, the rule changes in Ireland will help solve their front-row problem over time.

Back to the Aviva: Exeter and Northampton in a battle for 4th place (go Exeter!), Sale could still get a place in the Heineken Cup next year and Newcastle clawing for survival once again. I'll find it ironic if Newcastle go down by a point - the Newcastle supporters next to me when we beat them on Boxing Day were begging Sale to let them get a losing bonus point.

Back to the Super 15: The Crusaders are back and cost me money. I got all the other Super 15 results correct. Maybe next time.

[finbar]

The whole nexus between European Cup efforts and national team performances is shown to be dodgy by Wales. A GS for Wales and their regions/provinces/clubs/whatever-they-ares pretty much sink without trace in Europe. Ireland almost the exact opposite. There are so many variables involved that the argument is academic.

The Crusaders sank me too. As did a couple of other S15 results. I'm involved in a couple of S15 tipping comps and it's always tempting to cover my backside tipping different ways in different comps. It never works!