Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

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And congratulations Tigers. After the opening loss to Scarlets in the LV I didn't think we had any chance of that piece of silverware.

I was trying to overlook that result. Glad to see Ford getting game time, though, even in the LV. Hopefully a sign of things to come. Toby is going to find himself down the pecking order in no time flat.

[Havak]

Competition is a good thing of course. It may spur Toby on to improve himself in his weaker areas. But if he stays fit Ford will indeed be number one in fairly short order. I mean he makes Grindal look effective for goodness sake!!

I bet you had a great time Mobius - I remember rolling around Cardiff in 2002 after the 'hand of Back' incident getting royally drunk in the company of Munstermen. Far better located for the "apres-ski" than HQ is.

Interesting to see Gatland flagging those SH stats though - one post war win over the ABs (1953), lost six out of seven to Oz and never beaten RSA??? Staggering stuff - worthy winners of the 6N but Wales really need to kick on now and turn over some SANZAR sides. Who do they have in the autumn?

As for Lancaster I like the team spirit he has generated but personnally I would retain him as a coach working for Mallett. But that is just me - I suspect he is nailed on for the top job now.

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I've never rated Flood as a 10 - beyond club level - as I might have mentioned once or a thousand times before, so the sooner Ford steps up the better. Freddie Burns has some talent, too, but his defence is seriously flaky. Glaws syndrome.

Wales have the Wallabies for three Tests in Oz. Not sure who else if anyone.

There's a particularly nasty video doing the rounds of Callum Clark appearing to deliberately inflict damage on Hawkins' arm on the weekend. Have you seen it? Clark has a history of doing mental things.

I'd keep Lancaster in the mix, certainly. Either beneath Mallett, or with someone like the available AB chappie alongside. Mallett would be my first choice, though, with Lancaster.

[Havak]

Not seen any hint of that video. It explain the Hawkins sub for me though. I saw Stankovich's hamstring go and he was murdered by Doran Jones then in a couple of scrums before Ayerza replaced him. I failed to see what caused Hawkins to follow straight after. Clark has seen red more than once (and in more than one sense). If he deliberately caused damage to a fellow pro then a citing is in order.

Burns certainly has talent but you have nailed it - the Glaws backline have to blow opposition away as they will leak tries in turn.

Image of the 6N was Crofty wanting to swear, image of the LV cup final was Hamilton blowing like a cart horse as he sprinted for the line.

Wales have a three test tour in OZ in the summer? That is a big challenge. I believe England have a tour to RSA. Frankly I give England a better chance of getting a victory.

The new RFU head honcho apparently is a pragmatic soul - he may see the sense in not letting emotions make decisions. After all they did that with Jonno and ultimately that maybe did not go so well. That said Johnsons win record as a coach still eclipses Andy Robinsons (for England as well as Scotland).

*Almost back to old fashioned tours then? Three test tours for England in RSA, Wales in OZ, France in Argentina, Ireland in NZ (!) and then Scotland spread the wealth with one in OZ, Fiji and Samoa. Italy just have the two it seems - Pumas followed by the Canucks.

That is a tough tour for the Scots?

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Here's the incident on the Tube thingy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_5Vlsyekio

[Havak]

Here's the incident on the Tube thingy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_5Vlsyekio

That does look like a very cheap shot. I've still got the game on my HD box so will take a closer look.

[kittenOFchaos]

Pretty sure he should be banned before he does someone any real harm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNgWg8kGMWk

In terms of the incident on Sunday:

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Thug. And Dylan Hartley has been cited for biting. Only a matter of time. If guilty, with his history, a very long holiday from rugby.

[Havak]

If it is proven they will indeed throw the book at him given he has previously served six months for gouging. It's totally unacceptable and also so very pointless. If he did it what the hell was he thinking?

And Sale take a huge gamble on English rugby's prodigal son. Steve Diamond proving he suffers from a touch of the Andy Robinsons (self delusion) with this statement:

Sale chief executive Steve Diamond said: "He feels Sale give him the best opportunity to fulfil his aspirations to be England's number one fly-half".

I suspect even kOc might agree that someone aiming to force themselves into England contention might not find Sale to be the natural, or indeed best, home for doing so?

Still Kennedy seems to be splashing the cash - another Saracens in the making I wonder? Offshore bank accounts ahoy....

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Apparently the BBC have said there's no coverage of the Hartley incident. The citing officer can only be working on the basis of Ferris' claim and marks on his finger. I wouldn't be surprised to see a finding of insufficient evidence.

Cipriani was desperate to return to England, to any club that would take him.

[Havak]

If Hartley did it he deserves all he gets. But if there is no TV footage showing it then the only outcome can be 'insufficient evidence' or it sets a very dangerous precedent of taking one players word above another.

What I did not like during the game was Ireland indulging in the very soccer like activity of mobbing the referee and not taking 'no' for an answer. We can do without that in the game and I am glad the referee told them to sling it (that it would be dealt with post game if it had been caught on camera).

As for Cips I am actually a little surpised he did not go to a London based side. Mind you the alcohol is cheaper in Stockport.

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Based on his theft of a bottle of vodka from a bar in Melbourne, the cause of one his suspensions from the Rebels, the price of alcohol is his last concern.

[kittenOFchaos]

I suspect even kOc might agree that someone aiming to force themselves into England contention might not find Sale to be the natural, or indeed best, home for doing so?

I'm repeat my last post on this matter. We've already got a really good number 10 and he doesn't get called away on International duty (awesome!). We're needing a better front row more than anything else, particularly as Sheridan is leaving (though he wasn't up to much as he was constantly injuried or away on International duty and never played the full 80 minutes anyway).

Cipriani may get our backline scoring more tries. I suspect he won't have as many problems in defence as he has with the Rebels for three reasons:

1. The Premiership doesn't have the same explosive running in the centers as the Super 15. The difference is night and day.
2. He'll have to make less tackles - Sale will be getting routed far less often than the Rebels.
3. Sale are very good at protecting their number 10's.

He is at least an interesting signing.

As for the England shirt - he is far back in line for this. He'll have to be playing exceptionally good rugby to even get a shot with the Saxons. His first priority is to repair his reputation which he did little to advance in Australia.

The writing was on the wall for Cipriani the moment the Rebels signed O'Connor and Beale. O'Connor is a truely incredible player as is Beale and both will keep Cipriani (or anyone else for that matter) out of no. 10 and no. 15 shirts.

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Cipriani was looking to escape Melbourne as early as last season, which was his first. It's arguable that some of his ridiculous behaviour - breaking curfew, getting ratfaced, missing compulsory training the next morning - was aimed at voiding his contract. While he's there, though, O'Connor is at 12 - where he will finish up for the Wallabies - and Beale - when he's fit, which is rarely these days with his ongoing hammy problems - at 15. Like Sale, though, the Rebels lack a front row.

[Havak]

What the Premiership does possess in spades however is feral blindsides who like to munch on opposition 10s. He may not need to make defensive tackles against rampaging centres so often but he will be routinely scragged in any case. He will need to toughen and grow up quite a lot I think. I'm expecting this experiment to fail quite spectacularly to be honest.

When it comes to Sale's welsh half back pairing kOc the one I think was a real steal for you is Peel. It is MacCloud you were referencing I think?