Apolyton Fantasy Football D/ST League Draft

[MRT144]

We're not supposed to collude to screw up a player. If he ends up getting screwed up, that's his fault, but it shouldn't happen because of collusion.

However, I see and agree with your larger point. Berzerker would have had opportunities to get a QB just as anyone else would have had opportunities to not get a crappy TE

And honestly, it wouldn't make a difference about Berzerker not having a QB. He could finish the draft with no QB's but everyone would be eager as hell to trade him one of their extra QB's for one of his choice RBs

Why would he trade one of his RBs? He can play them in the flex. And since none of us are going to actually draft a slew of QBs he isn't going to need to trade for.

Even so, everyone could just collude to trade him QBs with the same bye week.

[Al B. Sure!]

Why would he trade one of his RBs? He can play them in the flex. And since none of us are going to actually draft a slew of QBs he isn't going to need to trade for.

I was saying IF we were going to take all the QB's off the board like you said, Berzerker could probably go the rest of the draft without settling for Josh Freeman or whoever's the dead worst QB is or the backup with the injury-prone starter (Charlie Whitehurst in Seattle? Whoever the backup is in Washington, maybe Colt Brennan?) and then just trade afterward.

[duke o' york]

True enough. I just wish everyone would check at least twice a day. For those of us that are hovering on this it's excruciating. the life of a network admin needs entertainment!

Well as a Yurpeen then you'll probably often find you have to wait for my picks. Apologies, but I couldn't find a nice job in the US, and I'm not marrying Ben just to get a green card.

No, I'm marrying him for the sweet lovin'.

[MRT144]

Well as a Yurpeen then you'll probably often find you have to wait for my picks. Apologies, but I couldn't find a nice job in the US, and I'm not marrying Ben just to get a green card.

No, I'm marrying him for the sweet lovin'.

You're on right now and that's good enough for me.

[Jaguar]

As for the TE change, people who consider it a serious change in any capacity are simply uninformed about how much TEs actually score.

TE scoring is extremely low relative to WRs. While you think of the TEs who actually do stuff on a regular basis, many TEs simply block and don't catch passes.

Don't believe me? Quick, who plays TE for the Titans? Broncos? Jaguars? Honestly, these are some of the easier ones. How about the Rams? Browns? Bengals? Bills? Cardinals?

The 15th-highest-scoring TE last year (so a pretty good representative sample of a quality backup TE) was Kevin Boss, at 109.3 points last year. There were fifty receivers better than that last year, and thirty-nine running backs, including some guys like Jason Snelling who simply made a few spot starts. In points per game started, guys like Snelling would shatter even the best TE scoring.

In other words, if you could pick any RB/WR/TE to fill your flex spot for an entire year, there are 14 TEs, 50 WRs, and 39 RBs you would pick before you'd go to the 15th best TE.

If you think you're ever actually starting 2 TEs voluntarily in any fantasy football league, you simply don't know as much about football as you think you do.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Okay I misunderstood what Actual rankings were. I thought they were ADP.

However, as you said earlier:



Which positional imbalance wins out? It looks to me that it would be QB because 9 < 12.

This is Spaced's team:
Michael Turner RB ATL
DeAngelo Williams RB CAR
Steve Smith WR CAR
Mike Sims-Walker WR JAX

Realistically, I think considering how this draft is going, he could probably wait for a QB but QB would normally be a bigger priority.

Now what about the Flex expanded to include TE's? You implied you would change that if it was requested but only didn't already do it because of cosmetic reasons.

There is really no good reason NOT to open up the flex to TE's what with actual 2 TE sets in football, TE's that can play WR or H-Back, etc.

There is no "positional imbalance wins out" in BAPAYs. The BAPAY fills the open slot and the positional imbalance is to prevent someone from going X rounds without a position. Drafting a TE would not create a positional imbalance, as QB is 9th round and 4 rounds until that.

[Al B. Sure!]

Off the top of my head:

Rams: Randy McMichael
Browns: Robert Royal and Steve Heiden
Bengals: Reggie Kelly! Who doesn't know him?
Bills: Okay. Who knows? It was Robert Royal for a few years.
Cardinals: It was Leonard Pope; now, I don't know.

So what's your point? If someone like MRT wants to start two TE's, he should be able to in the Flex position. Come on. It's his team. He should be able to do what he wants.


Imran:

oh I see

[Al B. Sure!]

And Jaguar, let's use MRT as an example...

As of right now, MRT has Antonio Gates and CJ Spiller. Who knows if CJ Spiller is actually going to get much of a role over there with the other two backs in Buffalo.

If he changed his CJ Spiller pick to Jermichael Finley... it is definitely possible he would be better off starting both Gates and Finley than Gates and Spiller. Of course, MRT also doesn't have any runningbacks so well, it's not a perfect comparison but there are situations where 2 TE's trumps a TE and RB/WR if the two TE's are elite enough.

[MRT144]

I think people are afraid they wont get a TE period if we can play one TE normally and one in the Flex but that's strategic football drafting. For instance if I drafted a TE with my next pick, and no one picked one before me, the best TE's are better than any available receiver right now.

[Al B. Sure!]

I think people are afraid they wont get a TE period if we can play one TE normally and one in the Flex but that's strategic football drafting. For instance if I drafted a TE with my next pick, and no one picked one before me, the best TE's are better than any available receiver right now.

And realistically, there are 32 starting TE's and I doubt anyone's going to grab 3 TE's so the worst you can do is you'll be stuck with the 28th TE (which last year was Rosario Dawson) and that's only if EVERYBODY grabs two TE's and you wait to get your first.

However, if you wait that long to get your first TE... hell, you have a definite advantage in your RB's and WR's because you got to pick them while everybody was picking their TE's.

[snoopy369]

I don't by any means think we should bapay a QB over TE based on 'quality' or whatever. I think QB should be filled before TE, period. RB,QB,WR,TE, in that order, with QB and WR negotiable but certainly TE after that. They should be filled in the order that most players draft them; otherwise you can end up with a TE BAPAY absurdly early (or a DEF or K). Well, any K BAPAY is absurdly early, but...

[snoopy369]

And realistically, there are 32 starting TE's and I doubt anyone's going to grab 3 TE's so the worst you can do is you'll be stuck with the 28th TE (which last year was Rosario Dawson) and that's only if EVERYBODY grabs two TE's and you wait to get your first.

However, if you wait that long to get your first TE... hell, you have a definite advantage in your RB's and WR's because you got to pick them while everybody was picking their TE's.

Al/MRT: The issue (for me at least) is that allowing TEs to be in an extra position will move up the TE drafting position. Even if it doesn't move it up much, it certainly will have the effect of causing TEs to be drafted slightly earlier. That's simple economics. As far as I'm concerned the only reason to add TE to the flex spot is to do so - and I don't think that's a desirable effect.

The reason RB/WR exists is to help balance the RB and WR selections in the middle rounds - if RBs go too early, then WR can be drafted later, or vice versa. Adding TE to that mix is unnecessary (there are plenty of WR/RB total to balance each other) and would alter the balance of TE vs (WR/RB), which I think is appropriate as is. You don't define positions just to be 'realistic' or to "let MRT do what he wants"; you define them to create a competitive, balanced game. There simply isn't reason to adjust the balance towards TEs.

[Al B. Sure!]

Consider:

The #4 TE... Only 32 RB/WR (meaning I'm looking at both RB's AND WR's TOGETHER) scored more than him.

MRT could realistically get the #4 TE right now.

[Jaguar]

Off the top of my head:

Rams: Randy McMichael
Browns: Robert Royal and Steve Heiden
Bengals: Reggie Kelly! Who doesn't know him?
Bills: Okay. Who knows? It was Robert Royal for a few years.
Cardinals: It was Leonard Pope; now, I don't know.

So what's your point? If someone like MRT wants to start two TE's, he should be able to in the Flex position. Come on. It's his team. He should be able to do what he wants.


Imran:

oh I see

You did pretty well, but your knowledge is dated.

Randy McMichael is currently on the Chargers. The Rams will probably start Daniel Fells.

Robert Royal is with the Browns. Steve Heiden is out of football. The actual starter will probably be Ben Watson, Patriots draft bust.

Reggie Kelly missed all of last season with an injury. Jermaine Gresham, their 1st round pick, is probably taking over the role. Chase Coffman is the 3rd TE on the roster that I know of.

Bills: Honestly, they really don't have anyone playing the position that anyone reasonable should have heard of. It's allegedly a "battle" between Shawn Nelson and Derek Schouman.

Cardinals: Pope is now with the Chiefs. Here, there's a handful of bad players competing for the spot. The best might be Dominique Byrd, but I wouldn't be sure of that.

[Al B. Sure!]

Al/MRT: The issue (for me at least) is that allowing TEs to be in an extra position will move up the TE drafting position. Even if it doesn't move it up much, it certainly will have the effect of causing TEs to be drafted slightly earlier. That's simple economics. As far as I'm concerned the only reason to add TE to the flex spot is to do so - and I don't think that's a desirable effect.

The reason RB/WR exists is to help balance the RB and WR selections in the middle rounds - if RBs go too early, then WR can be drafted later, or vice versa. Adding TE to that mix is unnecessary (there are plenty of WR/RB total to balance each other) and would alter the balance of TE vs (WR/RB), which I think is appropriate as is. You don't define positions just to be 'realistic' or to "let MRT do what he wants"; you define them to create a competitive, balanced game. There simply isn't reason to adjust the balance towards TEs.

so?

I fail to see how adding TE's make things less competitive or balanced. If you ask me, the more choices players can make, the MORE competitive and balanced it becomes almost by definition.