College Basketball

[-Jrabbit]

They're all the same, Drake. "Wild card" berths are the worst thing to ever happen to postseason sports.

I agree with your general point, but the NBA playoffs are particularly odious. Seriously, three months of playoffs? Three ****ing months?

The NHL is virtually the same -- both in number of teams and how freaking long it takes to whittle it down to one.

The larger problem, of course, is the size of the leagues themselves. major league sports have about 30 teams. Back when playoffs were restricted to champions, there were roughly half that number or less.

But I totally agree with the point.

[Ming]

I'm done with you for now, Ming. Guy and I are having an adult conversation.

Whenever you get beat, you just go to ignore mode and toss some more insults. You don't understand the concept of an adult conversation.

[Guynemer]

Ming--

The problem with virtually every playoff scheme proposed is that, by their very design (top 4, 8, 12, whatever), you are limiting the importance of the regular season. The only playoff scheme that wouldn't do that (and the only one that I've ever seen Drake agree with) is the crazy idea that I've proposed: no set number of teams; any and all and only teams that meet certain criteria (conference champ, maximum one-loss) play a tournament.

Now, the problem is that there is no way on God's green Earth that will ever, ever, ever happen, for myriad logistical, political, and economic reasons. The current system is a crap sandwich. So is any other playoff system likely to come down the pike.

[Drake Tungsten]

The only playoff scheme that wouldn't do that (and the only one that I've ever seen Drake agree with) is the crazy idea that I've proposed: no set number of teams; any and all and only teams that meet certain criteria (conference champ, maximum one-loss) play a tournament.

Now, the problem is that there is no way on God's green Earth that will ever, ever, ever happen, for myriad logistical, political, and economic reasons. The current system is a crap sandwich. So is any other playoff system likely to come down the pike.

The current system is at least a lovable crap sandwich, however, in addition to being a cash cow.

[Ming]

Ming--

The problem with virtually every playoff scheme proposed is that, by their very design (top 4, 8, 12, whatever), you are limiting the importance of the regular season.

The top four teams woult NOT lessen the importance of the regular season any more than the top two teams does now.

The only playoff scheme that wouldn't do that (and the only one that I've ever seen Drake agree with) is the crazy idea that I've proposed: no set number of teams; any and all and only teams that meet certain criteria (conference champ, maximum one-loss) play a tournament.

Please explain how this "crazy" idea doesn't limit the importance of the regular season yet a four team play off would.

Now, the problem is that there is no way on God's green Earth that will ever, ever, ever happen, for myriad logistical, political, and economic reasons. The current system is a crap sandwich. So is any other playoff system likely to come down the pike.

Yet a four team playoff system would be better than the BCS picking two teams, and would have no more limiting effect on the regular season than the current system.

Again, the NCAA should take control of their championship. The economic issues aren't a problem since the money would be there, just as there is for the current system. The only politics is the BCS old men, which shouldn't even be an issue since it is the NCAA's sport. And to the logisitical issue, hell, the BCS has already changed the entire makeup of College Football by making New Years Day, once one of the greatest days in college sports, into a meaningless ho hum day... maybe a change would be for the better.

But I do appreciate having an adult discussion about it with you... unlike Drake, you at least discuss the issues and just don't resort to insults when somebody disagrees with you.

[Guynemer]

The top four teams woult NOT lessen the importance of the regular season any more than the top two teams does now.



Please explain how this "crazy" idea doesn't limit the importance of the regular season yet a four team play off would.

It's simple. Let's take 2006 as an example again. The top four teams at the end of the regular season were OSU, Florida, Michigan, and USC (I think; not positive about USC). The OSU-Michigan game would've been rendered irrelevent.

The loser of the SEC Championship Game (and, less frequently, the Big 12 Championship Game) often finishes in the top 4 (or 8, or 12, etc.); the result of that game would be completely meaningless if both squads made a championship tourney.

ONLY conference champs should be invited, period. Many non-champs make the top 4.

[Ming]

So where did I say that non champs should get a chance to be the champion?
You are the one making assumptions that non champs were to be included.
The top/best four champions should play it out... whether they are from the BCS or not.

So again... this would not make the regular any more meaningless than the current system that pretty much excludes non BCS schools. If anything, it would make the regular season FAR MORE MEANINGFUL for those that are currently locked out of the system.

[Drake Tungsten]

So where did I say that non champs should get a chance to be the champion?
You are the one making assumptions that non champs were to be included.
The top/best four champions should play it out... whether they are from the BCS or not.

This is why I call you a ****. You just change whatever your stupid argument is when someone shows you why you're wrong...

[Ming]

And exactly what am I changing in this continuing discussion?

I didn't say that non champs should be champs. And the argument isn't stupid, and he hasn't shown it to be wrong. He is the one that pulled something out of the past that discussed how non champs shouldn't have the chance to be champs. I agree that non champs shouldn't be champs in College Football.

We can all admit that Football is different than the other sports because of the lesser number of games and the importance of each. We can all agree that it is a cash cow. We can disagree on revenue, but a non BCS playoff could generate just as much if not more revenue than the current system.. without having any impact on making the regular season less or more meaningful. As it stands right now, it is pretty meaningless for the non BCS schools.

And as usual, you add nothing to the discussion except an insult.

[Drake Tungsten]

And exactly what am I changing in this continuing discussion?

You said that a playoff with the "top four teams" wouldn't affect the regular season. Guy demonstrated why this was retarded, so you changed your proposal to exclude teams that weren't conference champs, which means you're no longer defending your stupid position that a playoff with the "top four teams" wouldn't affect the regular season.

I now expect Guy to find a recent season where the fourth-best conference champ had three or four losses, at which point you'll claim you were only talking about including conference champs with one or fewer losses, making your playoff proposal exactly the same as the playoff proposal of Guy's that you were criticizing in the first place.

We can disagree on revenue, but a non BCS playoff could generate just as much if not more revenue than the current system..

Yes, two weeks of do-or-die games (involving four teams and their fanbases) is going to generate as much revenue as fourteen weeks of do-or-die games (involving dozens of teams and their fanbases)...

God, you're so stupid.

[Ming]

You seem to be the one that doesn't understand.
Please point out how a four team playoff vs the current two team game will have any effect on the other fourteen weeks worth of revenue. It won't, so what's your point?

And as far as your other smoke screen... I've been talking about undefeated teams not getting a chance.
And I haven't been critizing his proposal... He's the one that called it crazy. What I did ASK was how it made the regular season more meaningful than a four team playoff.

A playoff with 4 teams is better than just two teams. It's been obvious from past years that deserving teams have not had the opportunity to prove it. Granted, some years, four teams may not be enough either, but it sure is better than two teams.

I stand by my comments that a four team playoff system will NOT make the regular season any more meaningless than the current system... and the current system make the regular system meaningless for many teams not in BCS conferences.

Please learn to read... oh, and comprehend what you do read.

[Drake Tungsten]

Please point out how a four team playoff vs the current two team game will have any effect on the other fourteen weeks worth of revenue.

A four-team playoff of the four best conference champions (your latest proposal) devalues non-conference games (you can lose one or two and still win your conference and make the playoff) and non-divisional games within conferences (you can lose a game or two to teams in the other division, as long as you win your division and the conference title game and go to the playoff).

You obviously put no time or effort into analyzing the likely outcomes of the scenario you proposed. To be fair, though, you did just come up with this idea a minute ago when Guy shot down your first proposal.

And as far as your other smoke screen... I've been talking about undefeated teams not getting a chance.

And now you actually are proposing exactly what Guy is...

Jesus Christ.

[Ming]

Again.. please actually come up with a real argument on how a four team playoff system will lessen the revenue generated from the regular season. Are you actually claiming that everybody will want to renegotiate lower contracts with all the conferences/teams because there is a four team playoff system instead of two. Is that really what you are saying?

You obviously don't even bother to think before you post.

[Ming]

And if you bothered to learn to read... you will see in this thread that I've only talked about a four team playoff and discussed unbeaten teams. You seem to be assuming all these crazy things that you didn't actually see me post. You have obviously put no time into actually reading anything, and just keep throwing insults around and making things up thinking that it will make you look good.

Here is a tip... why don't you read and then actually think before you bother posting.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't know how I'm supposed to analyze your proposal when you won't stick to one. This is why I don't bother with you. Much like Sloww, you're both retarded and stubborn beyond any sense of reason because you can't recognize how dumb you actually are.

As for a four-team playoff restricted to conference champions and undefeated teams, that's a stupid idea because of how uncommon it is to have four unbeatens at the end of a season. This past season was an anomaly.