MLB - 2009 Regular Season Thread!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

No different then amphetamines in the past.

For those who think baseball was "clean" in the Golden Days, they are completely deluding themselves. Aaron, Mays, Mantle were all taken amphetamines to get back up because of the haul of the 162 game season. It's really all faux outrage. We don't actually care when players use steroids or HGH, we just like to think we do (well some of us).

Personally, I'd say let 'em use. But I understand that for PR purposes, baseball has to do something and now it has the best testing program of any of the Big 4.

[Arrian]

I dunno if I'd go so far as to say "ah, let 'em use!" but I generally agree with your PoV. Greenies in the past, 'roids since the 80s... this stuff happens and isn't going to be wished away. They've implemented a decent testing program, and should do their best to test for new & improved PEDs. But the moralizing about the 90s/early 00s is dumb.

Meanwhile, the NFL just laughs at MLB. That entire league is 'roided up and nobody cares.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, I'm a drug legalization type of guy, so...

But, yes, baseball hasn't been clean in the past, isn't clean now, and won't ever be clean in the future... just like every other sport.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, so apparently the Mets have won 5 straight. I'm not entirely sure how that happened.

[-Jrabbit]

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

[Sava]

Imran, you seem to be big on this whole "well they did stuff in the past, so the stuff now is okay" mindset.

I'll spell it out for you. It was wrong then. It's wrong now. But there are degrees of wrong. Getting hopped up on amphetamines is not the same as blowing up on roids.

And yeah, I'm all for legalize it
But as far as I'm concerned, that's an issue regarding what should be allowed in the privacy of one's home. If MLB is going to hold the title of "National Pastime" (and have an anti-trust exemption), then it needs to uphold a strict set of standards that don't apply to Joe and Jane Public.

It's funny that you throw things out there like saying people who think like I do are idiots because there's no such thing as baseball purity. But I'm already there with you. I don't think baseball was ever pure. Mickey Mantle was a drunk. Pete Rose was Charlie Hustle because he was shot up with Lord knows what.

My point isn't that baseball needs to be pure because we need to get to some sort of idealistic state of purity. I've never said that and I don't know why you would argue against that strawman when we have these discussions. My whole point is that MLB is sports entertainment. It's professional wrestling. It's not a real sport. It really never was. I grew up playing APBA baseball, reading baseball encyclopedias, memorizing stats, and even idolizing douchebags like McGwire and Canseco (the bash brothers when they were with the A's).

I think the issue you have is that you still view it as this idealistic "national pastime". But it's not. It's a dirty game played by dirty as mother****ers. Dirty, greedy ass politics have always surrounded the game. Baseball's legacy is one of greed, racism, and now, drug use.

I'm concerned with reforming this toilet sport and making it something good. I want to see productive drug testing. I want to know that I'm watching real people playing the game. I don't want to watch muscle-bound freaks. Maybe you do. That's fine. But be honest with yourself and the rest of us and say that's what you want. You want muscle bound freaks playing this game.

To me, that's not real baseball.

And we don't need asterisks or anything. But rather, just an honest and open account of everything that's taken place throughout baseball's history. We're still in the steroid era. These players now couldn't hit 50-60 homers without their drugs. Albert Pujols probably has taken enough HGH to kill a horse.

I guess what bothers me about all this is the impact on statistics that this crap has. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire... they were all good players in their own right, but they would not have put the numbers up that they did without the juice. So now, baseball has become, not a competition between men, but a competition between who has the best chemistry set.

And to be perfectly honest, I want to watch real baseball, not a competition between who comes up with the best cocktail of drugs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It was wrong then. It's wrong now.

In your opinion, of course. I have no problems with Aaron, Mantle, and co. trying to get the best edge. Trying to recover as quickly as they can from a grueling game.

My whole point is that MLB is sports entertainment. It's professional wrestling. It's not a real sport.

Which is the biggest bull**** I've ever heard. Just because players are using drugs invalidates its as a "real sport"? What a ****ing moronic argument! Oh noes, players are using drugs to get ahead in the game. Guess what, they are using all sorts of over the counter pills as well. What do you think creatine and andro were from? What do you think the concoction you can get from the GNC's across the country are? Doesn't that contribute to them being "muscle bound freaks"? Why not?!

What, we are going to try to have a league where the strongest drug you can use is aspirin so it be a "real sport" to the Sava's of the world? How naive are you?

Guess what, drugs by themselves won't make you a better player. You need to have the skill set in place and then the drugs will just put you in a position to better yourself. Steroids just allow you to recover from workouts quickly. You STILL have to work out to put on that muscle.

They are all "real sports" and just because fogeys like you want some purity in the sport doesn't change that fact.

[Sava]

Which is the biggest bull**** I've ever heard.

You must not read your own posts.

fogeys like you want some purity in the sport

You enjoy arguing against strawmen.
You should build one in your apartment and yell at him.
Put my face on it too
That way, when you come up with your imaginary argument, it can seem more real.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm distilling your post down to what it's actually about. Otherwise it has no merit.

Your basic point is this:

I want to know that I'm watching real people playing the game. I don't want to watch muscle-bound freaks.

So why exactly is "fogeys like you want some purity in the sport" a strawman? It is EXACTLY what you are saying! Because of drugs you don't think they are "real people".

Read your own posts sometimes.

[Arrian]

Steroids also help with injury recovery.

Also, lots of pitchers used. It's not just the hitters. So, to me, while of course I'd prefer if nobody had juiced, the playing field was more even than you might think, Sava. Eric Gagne faces Barry Bonds and strikes him out. Both of them were roided up. Was that unfair? Tainted?

I do feel a bit bad for those players who were clean - especially those who were in AAA and couldn't break into the bigs b/c they just weren't quite good enough. That sucks. I want them to test, I want them to pour money into the testing and research, and I want them to make examples. All of that is good stuff. But the doom & gloom of "it's professional wrestling" is ridiculous.

-Arrian

p.s. Sava, should they ban LASIK surgery? How about Tommy John surgery? What about coritsone shots?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Victor Martinez, C-1B for the Cleveland Indians appears to now be a Boston Red Sox in exchange for Justin Masterson and prospect Nick Hagadone (edit: and prospect Bryan Price).

Martinez is a great bat for a Catcher (not all that much for a 1B), but I have doubts he'll be elevated over Varitek (kinda of like how A-Rod wasn't given the SS place over Jeter in NY).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, and in other deadline news, the Twinkies trade for Orlando Cabrera from the A's, and the Tigers get Jarred Washburn from the Mariners (much better destination for him than the Yankees, considering that Washburn is a big flyball pitcher and Comerica will be much, much friendlier for him with those far, far walls than the launching pad that is Yankee stadium).

Biggest deal, STILL, has been Cliff Lee to the Phils.

[EPW]

I would be pissed if I was a Mariners fan.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And the White Sox get an injured Jake Peavy for some top level prospects. I guess the White Sox feel he can give them a push when he gets back in late August/early September (if he does) and then for next year?

Prospects seem to be: Adam Russell, Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, and Dexter Carter

[SlowwHand]

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

And this is the core reason of why things are the way they are these days.
The end justifies the means. I ain't buying into that way of thinking.