NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - 08/09 Season

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally posted by Jaguar
What the Patriots have pioneered is the use of the shotgun as the primary formation. They're the first team ever to use it on over 50% of snaps.

Disagree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_(American_football)#Shotgun

[Jaguar]

I'd disagree with that wiki article, because I'm a Colts fan and I watch them all the time. The Colts do not use the shotgun as their primary formation. They use it significantly, but the under-center formation is more common. The Colts' signature running play, the stretch play, is done from under center. Well over 50% of their snaps come with Manning directly behind Saturday.

The Patriots are the only NFL team ever to use the shotgun more often than snaps under center.

[Lord Avalon]

From Pro Football Prospectus 2008, p.158

New England was the first offense in the 21st century to use the shotgun on more than 50 percent of offensive plays.

[snoopy369]

21st century being a rather important qualifier

[SlowwHand]

Since Landry teams used it. Landry also invented the 4-3 defense, thank you very much.

[ramseya]

Colts appear to use the shotgun a lot but really don't use it much more than many other teams do... otherwise, Joe Addai would have to run shotgun draws all the time and we know he doesn't.

And the Rams' spread offense wasn't shotgun-based. Mike Martz is not a big proponent of the shotgun formation which contributes to why his QB's get sacked so much.


BK:

The point was teams with 3 corners. Cromartie and Jammer would have counted last year when they also had a serviceable Drayton Florence whom they do not have this season. If it was just 2 corners, Nnamdi Asomugah and Deangelo Hall on the Raiders or Champ Bailey and Dre Bly on the Broncos, Al Harris and Charles Woodson on the Packers, or even Nathan Vasher and Charles Tillman on the Bears would all be great combos but it's 3 corners I was referring to.

[Spaced Cowboy]

I was mainly trying to point to the fact that the Dallas cowboys of the '70's used the shotgun as their primary formation.

Then I realized that primary is not the same as greater than 50%

I'm not even sure those exact stats are available as my internet search turned up on the wiki article.

[Jaguar]

The '70s was a really run-heavy era. The shotgun has pretty large disadvantages in running, so it only works if you can pass to set up the run. In a run-heavy era, I'm not sure that's really something that you could do.

[snoopy369]

The Cowboys used the shotgun to run, actually (staubach always had a RB next to him). They also were like the colts in that they often switched formations during the presnap count. I can't find anything definitive, but I'd not be surprised to find they used it over half the time.

[SlowwHand]

The Landry years used more screens and draws that have been used lately; which is a real sore spot with me.
Perfect plays for pressure defenses.

[ramseya]

Sloww:

Defensive players are too quick now for heavy uses of screens. When you have linebackers in the league now like Patrick Willis running a 4.37 40 screens stop being so effective. Too much risk of being stuffed for a loss or worse, intercepted (and that pick is going all the way).

[snoopy369]

Screens work well occasionally (the 2006 Bears used them to great effect, particularly in the first few games where Rex was playing well). They don't work well as the primary element of the offense, though.

PHI and similar teams are very vulnerable to them (as they take advantage of blitzers).

[ramseya]

Nah the Eagles are vulnerable to them because of a bad linebacker corps. If the Eagles had good young linebackers who are quick (both physically and in re-acting to the offense) like the 49ers' Patrick Willis and Manny Lawson, the Eagles could blitz all they wanted and still not fall prey to screens too badly.

[snoopy369]

Ummmm, no. Blitzing is always vulnerable to screens, because the folks who should be covering the screen are ... blitzing. If you had perfectly agile players with unlimited speed and infinite acceleration, then it wouldn't be a problem; but sadly, players are human, so it is always effective to screen against a blitz. HOW effective is of course another story, of course, but that depends on the quality of the defense in any event.

[ramseya]

I don't think guys like Patrick Willis, Manny Lawson, Shawne Merriman, Ernie Sims, Thomas Howard, and Kamerion Wimbley are human though...

Like I said, Patrick Willis runs a 4.37 40. For comparison, Ladainian Tomlinson ran a 4.38.

These young linebackers drafted the last few years are physical freaks that can break away from the blitz and bring RB's down from behind.