Rugby - Tours Tours Everywhere!

[Havak]

Nothing legitimises posting in the Technology forum.

Glad you enjoyed Peter's interview.

My own considered theory is this - they appointed Marcelo assuming it would bring Hernandez in. When it became clear that would not happen he became completely expendable.

Is a head coach completely off the hook for the side not having a plan B in critical games? I don't think we can completely absolve him of blame even if I do agree that players and sub coaches all have their own share.

Oh sorry - you told me not to get you re-started!

[finbar]

Too late.

The Hernandez theory is possible, but if true, it renders the board utter fools. My theory is as I suggested the other day - a lack of due diligence. They chase names and reputations without researching suitability. They discover only now that Loffreda is apparently a tactical nong with virtually no English? Aaron Mauger never fitted Leicester's set up. He belongs at Bath or Gloucester or Irish or anywhere where there's a mindset that can exploit a creative #12. In fact, as I've said before, I'd've bumped Andy Goode and dropped Mauger into #10. Lose a goal kicker, sure, but gain a playmaker who knew how to feed the talent further outside.

Leicester? Plan B? Maybe in years gone by, when blokes like VD were still running around.

[Havak]

They never consistently struggled for a plan B up to around 2005 (when someone retired).

How about Mauger outside Flood? Or Vice Versa. This worst kept secret in rugby is now public.

[finbar]

Flood and Mauger, whichever way around, looks a lot more promising. Given that I've only seen Flood play Tests where he's yet really to produce the goods.

[Havak]

Mainly I think because he has played inside Noon or Tindall for England. And outside of a Wilkinson that no longer seems able to bring his backline into the game.

But time will tell - he will surely only improve as a player by playing alongside Mauger.

I see that Tom Palmer and McCaw were school mates - Palmer being at least the second English lock that NZ tried to naturalise as an AB via the school boy route whilst on student exchange. They must have been desperate! But then Ali Williams is now senior lock so I guess they are/were!?

On which note I wonder is either Hayman or Jack regret where they signed given they must now realise they are with 'eternal strugglers' and 'flatterers to deceive' respectively. They must be wishing they had researched the Prremiership a bit better? Unless they were actually looking for an easy retirement post (though both are a bit young to do that?). If Hayman craved silverware then his research really let him down badly - I can however understand how Gaffney and Wray might have hoodwinked Jack into believing Saracens had a chance. Sarries have talked a good season for a decade.

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Yes, it's hard to know why the Haymans and Jacks of the world decide the way they do. I suppose Chris Jack is understandable, Sarries' ongoing spending would seem to suggest a real quest for success. Problem is, they buy indiscriminately. Hullo Brett Russell, very very very poor man's Jason Robinson who was found out at Test level not to mention S14 level. I assume Hayman went to Newcastle because, apart from the super tanker-load of money, it was posited that the team were only a decent pack away from success, and it appealed to his ego. If he'd had the slightest idea of the off-field dramas that were to happen, resulting in the loss of their two best backs, he probably would have made a different decision.

I'm quite sure, though, that Chris Latham knows exactly what he's getting at Worcester. Underdogs, with big ambitions. That's the kind of bloke he is.

[Havak]

Underdogs with big ambitions - and just about the richest club owner in the Premiership.

I wonder what his off-salary package is?

Hayman probably has a parachute clause in the contract - perhaps he should use it.

[Havak]

Ireland's chances have recieved a small boost with open side Shane Jennings coming into the starting lineup.

He is a former Tigers man of course.

[finbar]

I'm sure Chris Latham's being paid very handsomely. He's worth every penny. My point was that instant silverware wouldn't necessarily be his priority. I might have to take a bit more interest than usual in Worcester next season.

Fascinating day of rugby tomorrow. Can't wait. If England had a better 9-10 combo, and the forwards turned up, they could threaten the ABs. I remain entirely unconvinced by the AB centres, regardless of Nonu's try and Conrad Smith's role in another try. Trouble is, I'm yet to be convinced that Ollie is an international player, and Tindall will remain a dead end in terms of the ball getting to the backs.

There is, understandably, an air of great optimism in Australia with Robbie Deans around. It's nice to have an articulate coach for a change. At least one who has proved that he can transfer words into deeds. It will be interesting to see how long it takes the squad to forget the pre-programming that had been drilled into them by the last couple of coaches. Deans' motto seems to be to play what's in front of you. Not a mindset to which the Wallabies are accustomed.

The Boks have strengthened their team. Yet they're still not at full strength. Pity the Taffys.

He is a former Tigers man of course.

There's a few of them around at the moment. Marcello Loffreda ...

[Havak]

Bob Dwyer ...

I'm sure Latham knows the score - he is replacing another SH fullback for them after all. He is a going to be a diamond amongst cheap paste knock offs. As long as he realises that he'll do okay.

Zinzan is really worried about NZ too - he thinks they are so poor they will only beat England by 5-8 points. He also thinks they will end up bottom of the tri-nations.

If only it was our 2003 touring side facing this NZ squad tomorrow....

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Australia. But even though I think they will lose I have to back the paddies. After all it currently looks as if our Irish cousins are going to nix the stealth EU constitution for us today.

I never pity Wales. Anymore than I expect them to pity England. Hook isn't a fullback and Roberts isn't a centre - but I am sure Gatland knows what he is doing.

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Couple of scrappy matches to start the day. Hopefully the Boks will do better.

The ABs can certainly do a lot better than that - I've never seen their lineout so poor - and England, well, their forwards turned up for the first ten or fifteen minutes. Presumably that's Charlie Hodgson's last time in an England jersey. Poor chap should never have been selected. The abysmal midfield defence probably means we'll see Jamie Noon next week. Nonu looked much better than he should have thanks to the turnstiles in midfield. Luke Narraway tried hard.

EDIT. Mmmm. I just heard, belatedly, the stand-in manager's post-match interview. He seems to have a mortgage on self-delusion.

New Wallaby coach, same old Wallaby effort. Strong first half, AWOL in the second half. Matt Giteau remains class, Luke Burgess' debut was handy and he'll be better for the outing. His forwards need to help him out more, though. For all Ireland's possession and territory stats, they lacked any penetration until late in the match when the Wallabies tired from making so many tackles. Moral victory to the Paddys, you'd have to say. Al Baxter set a record for the most caps for a Wallaby prop. What a joke.

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Have to hand it to the Taffys, they lifted hugely from last week. At the same time, the Boks invited it from the early stages with a cocky attitude, wasting possession. It wasn't the clinical Boks from last week.

[Havak]

Actually Finbar despite the fact it was a heavy defeat I was quite pleased with the boys. I would single out Tom Rees for particular praise – I think it was his best game in an England shirt so far.

NZ were their usual Professional selves. Fail to make first up tackles count or give their backs space and they make you pay. You have to hand it to them. For me the fundamental difference between the sides on saturday was that two minute period where Charlie acted as a turnstile for the AB’s very own Jamie Noon equivalent and then Narraway tried to play fancy ball from a turnover in our 22 gifting the big Islander a try. NZ then failed to add to that tally for a whole 25 mins of the run in so they do have some questions to ask themselves this week - they should have been able to turn the screw a bit more?

I like to keep in mind that there was finally some very young blood on the field for us – Richie and Rodney are vastly more experienced than their younger English opponents but Rees, Haskell and Narraway acquitted themselves very well and they will keep getting better. Kaino is a talented lad I think but I rate the Wasps pair just as highly. And should one of our back rows not fulfil their potential we have Tom Croft, Jordan Crane, Tom Guest and even the likes of Stefon Armitage and Will Skinner coming through. We do have strength in depth with back row forwards. And locks. We do need to find some more young props. And a midfield player or two would be quite nice.

All that said I did not expect us to be the first side in five years to down AB colours at home – and I knew our mid field was pathetic. The only additional lessons I took from it is that Hodgson is a woeful tackler, Ollie always looks like a charge down waiting to happen and a Tindall (who is five years older than his RWC winning self and no longer has Will Greenwood inside him) has nothing to offer England anymore.

With Sheridan out of the second test the young lad from the Saxons – Wilson – may get a baptism of fire next weekend.

The Saxons are playing some nice rugby – but then the opponents are making that possible. Anthony Allen looks to have potential for filling the England 12 shirt and Crane and Banahan are putting pressure on the incumbents in their positions too.

The interesting thing for me in the Wallaby game was that French referee. I don’t know who that Wallaby loosehead is but he cannot scrummage. Despite that he managed to get the ref to penalise Hayes several times when it was him who had collapsed the scrum. Well done to the lad for top quality hoodwinking! Just about the only thing Hayes does well is scrummage.

And Wales – when they took the lead with 15 mins left I felt they had a chance. Shows what I know. Shocking Boks defence for the Williams try I thought.

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Yes, the England back row tried hard all day. I don't think they broke even but they're all talented young chaps. We know that. Experience will only make them better. They were the good points out of the match.

Hodgson was a disaster waiting to happen, unfortunately, and it didn't help that the England pack were being pushed around a bit. Which surprised me. Sheridan wasn't a force and Matt Stevens was a bit exposed. Even if the AB loose head hardly ever bound legally.

Topsy is being lauded as the new hero. Anyone who can run quickly was going to score those two tries - an intercept, and an AB defensive balls-up. Bit like Paul Sackey in recent times. Apart from Chettle's early chance, they never really threatened to score. I suppose it's just a matter of biding time till the first choice halves come back. Though I read somewhere that Cipriani might not be back for autumn.

The ABs should be spewing over their last 20 minutes. It was slack stuff. They're certainly not - yet - up to the class of the last lot. Understandable, really, given the talent they've lost.

I don’t know who that Wallaby loosehead is but he cannot scrummage.

You mean he's the only one? Benn Robinson, the latest in a long line of Australian props who can't scrummage.

Most of the Australian media is going apesh*t over the Wallaby performance. Can't imagine why, except that they're caught up in the Robbie Deans euphoria.

[Havak]

Interesting with the back rows that Mr Andrew has offered to buy Richie a white shirt for next week so he is wearing to right colour for the side of the ball he always lays on.

The first feedback from a poster said it perfectly:
“Calling an openside a cheat is like calling a midget short. It's basically part of the job description.”
I’m rather hoping our boys are picking up tips from Richie. Will NZ be able to keep hold of him until 2011 I wonder?

I wasn’t surprised the pack got shoved around a bit Finbar – Mears is lightweight and that engine room is far from my preferred combination of locks. It’s a transitional engine room – there is no long term future for Borthwick-Palmer. I wouldn’t mind seeing Skivington and Blaze in the 22 with Kay based on what I have seen of them with the Saxons.

I suppose I was surprised that Stevens struggled – an off day only I hope. With Sheridan he is the ultimate bipolar prop – either quite awesome or totally ineffective.

Cipriani is indeed touch and go for the autumn tests. He won’t have much rugby behind him even if fit in time. But then he is still only a lad with huge potential - as opposed to the second coming some Wasps fans would have you believe. Lamb had a poor game against Ireland A this weekend but must be in the mix. Wilko might be fit again. As you say Hodgson’s career must surely be over.

I confess I do tremble at the thought of opposing Carter with a part time fly half next weekend (both Barkeley and Flood are inside centres).

Ellis should certainly be 100% by the autumn. I liked what little I saw of Danny Care when he came on against NZ. Hodgson had a good game for the Saxons and I have no problem with Wiggleworth. Whilst Ellis does have problem with his distribution at times I think he offers a much bigger threat from the base of the scrum and around the ruck than any of the others. Care runs him closest on that front.

I can understand the Aussie media getting hyper – they pretty much always do.

It was a fantastic defensive display from them. And I think Ireland have a similar problem to England is some ways – O’Gara doesn’t seem able to put those talented backs into space very often.

Benn Robinson eh? Lets hope he can keep hoodwinking the refs.