Rugby - New Year, New Coaches, New Laws

[Andydog]

Originally posted by finbar
I'm afraid to say that you're in for a long wait. Unless Rob Andrew falls under a bus, the coach is in situ for a while. After the hoo-ha of the World Cup renaissance, and Andrew hitching himself to Ashton in the post-Cup review, coach and boss are handcuffed together. To sack the coach, Andrew would have to admit grievous error, and that, as you well know, ain't on the cards. Common sense - which is what you're uttering - doesn't enter into this situation.

There is an interesting article on rugby365. Jake White is in London at the moment signing copies of his new book. He is currently talking about joining the IRB, but I wonder if he'll find time to stop by Rob Andrew's office?

[Havak]

You could say we "choked" I suppose.

[Andydog]

I wouldn't say you "choked".

"Self administered strangulation" might better describe the performance.

[finbar]

Too many of the English forwards have weak skill levels.

Not to mention dodgy fitness levels. Hullo, skipper, in particular.

There is an interesting article on rugby365. Jake White is in London at the moment signing copies of his new book. He is currently talking about joining the IRB, but I wonder if he'll find time to stop by Rob Andrew's office?

Only to gloat. He's talking about coaching the Lions. Eddie O'Sullivan, who seemed to be eyeing the job, is ruling himself out of the running with the Paddys' abysmal efforts. Anyway, I would bet a bucket of LdiC's mussels in white wine that Ashton is in situ for the autumn tests. Unless he decides, um, to spend more time with his family, or whatever the euphemism is these days.

Wilko was lucky. Lucky indeed. Has the Scotland centre been cited for the stupid head butt behind the goal posts?

[Havak]

No, he has not been cited either.

Self administered strangulation sounds about right.

I've been very clear about this squad - too many players don't warrant their selection including the skipper.

Key mistakes include Regan who seems to have been selected solely on the fact Ashton first signed him to bath twenty years ago? Vickery who isn't fit (thanks Finbar) and who is a shadow of the man who used to play for Gloucester before his back surgery problems. Borthwick I have never rated and poor Simon Shaw has finally seen age catch up with him. Tindall was picked on his 2003 form I think - and Balshaw on the few good months he once had in 2001 presumably. Sackey just doesn't offer any real threat at this level and Mears lacks the size for an International hooker. There are more problems but you get the picture.

The common thread with most of the players I mention above is their history at Bath - Vickery, Shaw and Sackey are Wasps men but the rest are all Bath Alumni. I can't shake the feeling that flawed criteria are being used when picking the squad.

It's baffling given the strong world cup efforts that players like Chuter and Hipkiss have been ditched. Their mistake seems to be playing for the Premiership champions rather than for also rans in London or the West Country.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
The common thread with most of the players I mention above is their history at Bath - Vickery, Shaw and Sackey are Wasps men but the rest are all Bath Alumni. I can't shake the feeling that flawed criteria are being used when picking the squad.

Ashton has picked plenty of non-Bath players in the past though, and this includes Tigers. It sounds to me more like he doesn't really know what he's doing, and therefore does whatever the person shouting loudest tells him to do. Perhaps at the moment its his Bath mates who are shouting at him. Clearly Rob Andrew has done his fair share of shouting as Brian's past team selections have often had Andrew written all over them. I never understood how Dayglo managed to talk his way back into the World Cup squad.

[LDiCesare]

Indeed Chutter was obviously better than the alternatives during the WC.
And the backline started looking like something only when Ashton's first choice players were hurt.
I'm not sure he realised his team made it to the final partly because the team he would have selected was hurt and he had to make other choices.
At least, our French coaches aren't afraid of trying young players, but then some of them come form rather poor teams (Albi, and even Castres, which is underperforming).

[Havak]

And that is something your French coaches should be applauded for.

And you are both correct that Ashton doesn't really seem to know what he is doing or realise why things subsequently either work or do not work.

Finbar and I have discussed in the past how a player like Croft, were he antipodean, would already be a full international. Not in England though.

Andydog you are right he has picked more Tigers previously - but not necessarily the ones he should have, or as many as he should have, or even necessarily in the right positions.

There are some young players who should be in the squad now (Crane, Blaze, Croft are easy examples) and some who will be in future (I would pick Ben and Tom Youngs out in particular).

I think my laboured point is that I know my own club roster fairly well, and with the Premiership I have an inkling of who the form players are (though Narraway caught me out) but it would appear that both those points mark me out as being different from Mr Brian Ashton.

Dayglo was baffling - but for me so is the recall of Regan since last year. I saw him subbed off at Welford road a decade ago because a barracking Richard Cockerill had him almost in tears - and he has never managed to impress me since.

[finbar]

The rather sad evidence that he doesn't know what's going on was on display in his immediately post-match interview. He looked shellshocked - as he was entitled to - but he said he didn't know what had gone wrong, that he'd have to talk to the players first. I liked the Sky chap's piece to camera afterwards: "Maybe we should have given him five minutes to go and ask the players and come back and tell us".

It was evident to everyone and his chien what had gone wrong. It looked and sounded pathetic.

[Havak]

Unfortunately I was watching the BBC coverage - complete with Jonathan Davies dancing around the studio (as he was fully entitled to).

It is worrying - if you pick the wrong players and the wrong captain it should be fairly obvious to you where you went wrong.

More worringly I am not at all sure he has the intellectual capacity to change direction (he reminds me more of his predecessor each day).

Mobious laughed at Wales for the Slam - but it's possible as the fixtures now really favour them. And my word what a dire tournament it would need to be for that to happen again.

I've seen the squad - it is frankly laughable. Noon, Payne, Lipman, Easter? Balshaw retains his place? This is a joke right?

I truly hope Italy beat us to teach the stupid old duffer another necessary lesson in rugby common sense.

I'm beyond angry with him now - he is detroying my national side by playing dumplings.

[finbar]

The sad reality is that the Azzurri doesn't have the attacking firepower to threaten you. Nick Mallett had them much better organised last week than in the World Cup. There were backline strategies in place. Just not the skill to carry them out.

The one thing that can be said of the selections is that they in no way surprise.

[Havak]

Don't write the Azzurri off - they might well win it through forward power. Castro and Nieto will certainly torture Payne and Vickery. it's hard to imagine the Italian hooker is less effective than Regan too?

It would be worth you checking out the BBC messageboards. It's almost Universal condemnation. And rightly so.

The coach has changed - but he is finding all new ways to make the same mistakes as his predecessor.

[finbar]

I'd love the Azzurri to triumph - for more reasons than just to cheer you up - but their threat peters out after 1-8. Who, incidentally, were very good last week. They will have to count on driving over the line. Which, incidentally, they did very well last week. I also fear that the novice England winger will scare the bejesus out of the Azzurri wingers, neither known for putting their body on the line.

I've enjoyed reading the BBC board. It's unanimous. The most telling point is the Newcastle nexus - if their backline is good enough for England, why aren't Newcastle further up the table? I still find it amusing, though, that there are Simpson-Daniel supporters out there.

[LDiCesare]

it's hard to imagine the Italian hooker is less effective than Regan too?

I thought he was quite good.
Problem is the Italians have strong forwards and powerful, even somewhat good, centers. But their halves and wingers are not that good. The full back is ok but not an attacking powerhouse either, and not precise enough in his kicks.
So, even with a poor team, England should still win, if only because they must feel humiliated.

[Havak]

You would think they do feel that way - but perhaps they are in denial just like our coach?

To be honest Balshaw is the kind of accident waiting to happen that might just give that Italian back line some confidence. Just drop the high balls on him and he will panic sooner or later.

Ah yes Finbar - the easy way to spot a Gloucester fan is the mention of JSD. You can spot Sale fans in the same way when they mention Chris Jones. Both are great club players, both have been given multiple chances in the white shirt and both have failed. Multiple times.

I'm not sure Italy winning would cheer me up as such - but it could only hasten the departure of the coach which I now believe is a very good thing.

*edit* The Falcons boys play behind a weak pack at Newcastle so the league placing is a bit misleading perhaps? Flood I have no problem with - if he could bulk up and keep his current pace I'd be even happier. Tait is a talent for whom the same would apply.

Wilko I can live with though another poor game should see him dropped for Geragthy.

Noon is the puzzle - Tindall lite is how one poster put it. The only rationale I can see for him being there is that Rob Andrew signed him to Newcastle?