MLB: The Mitchell Report

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yep, you can't say shielding the owners at all. There are various passages showing how GMs seemingly knew or had suspicions all throughout. There are a few interesting tidbits from notes from teams like the Dodgers who speculated some players may have been using steroids or weren't as good since they seemingly went off steroids.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Like I said, it's a 400 page document and a lot of it hasn't been digested yet. People are going on the summaries so far it seems.

[Arrian]

Harrumph. I'll back off the "shielding the owners" part until I have a chance to read the thing. But I doubt it hits as hard when it comes to ownership (note: ownership, not GMs and the like).

-Arrian

[Ming]

I don't need to read the report...
The facts are simple even from the summary...

MANY PLAYERS WERE DOING IT. The only debate is the total number and proof for specific players. It could only have gone on with the Owners ignoring the problem.

They are either morons or greedy...

[Saygame]

Steroid and HGH use in pro MLB underscore the reason for the formation of our local BFAB group. The acronym stands for Baseball Fans Against Baseball.

Modern emphasis on big bucks and attendant salaries are gonna fan the flames for awile on this. WE could all live for life on the 2 million a reserve catcher brings in for an annual 180 ABs. All this while Miquel Cabrera was quietly being paid under 600K in his early years cause he was too young and new. Go figure!

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Arrian
Pete Rose was given the opportunity to apologize, humble himself, and get into the HoF. He blew it, spectacularly.

what he paid for, it would seem.

-Arrian

Bonds and others are liars over worse.

[Arrian]

I disagree, actually. I think betting on games in which you were in position to influence the outcome is worse than taking 'roids.

But I suspect I may be in the minority on that one.

-Arrian

p.s. By the way, did the report even mention amphetamines?

[SlowwHand]

Yes, sir, I did bet on baseball," Rose told commissioner Bud Selig during a meeting in November 2002 about Rose's lifetime ban.

"How often?" Selig asked.

"Four or five times a week," Rose replied. "But I never bet against my own team, and I never made any bets from the clubhouse."

Rose's punishment has been overstated kneejerk reaction.

[Arrian]

A couple of things:

1) That's what Rose admits to. The man is an inveterate liar, so I'm not inclined to believe him.

2) Even if he was telling the truth in 2002, betting on his own team to win a particular game is still bad. Ride that ace starter for 120 pitches to win the game, maybe? Who cares about his arm, or his effectiveness next week? I got $1000 on this game!

3) He lied for years and years, and then fessed up. Let's give him a medal.

4) Rose was given the opportunity to grovel and be forgiven (which I thought was wrong), and he responded by publishing a book that was totally self-serving. The timing was a spit in the face of those who had attemped to rehabilitate him (in a baseball sense). It was crude, and stupid. I have no sympathy.

5) Pete Rose, the player, is overrated.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

No need for a smile. It's absolutely true. He played a lot of years, got a lot of hits, hustled a lot. But he's merely an above average hitter (118 OPS+). Good career OBP, but crappy SLG. His one MVP award (1973 NL) was a JOKE. Willie Stargell should have won it in a walk (or if you want to give to a playoff team player, Tom Seaver, easily, deserved it). Hell, on his OWN team that season, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez were better.

Lets be clear, his career OPS+ of 118 is tied for 374th all time with the likes of Lonnie Smith, Mike Easler, Cecil Fielder, and Pat Burrell. True he played a ton of years and that counts for something, but he's not as good as some people think.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Arrian
I disagree, actually. I think betting on games in which you were in position to influence the outcome is worse than taking 'roids.

But I suspect I may be in the minority on that one.

-Arrian

We're a minority of two then ...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No need for a smile. It's absolutely true. He played a lot of years, got a lot of hits, hustled a lot. But he's merely an above average hitter (118 OPS+). Good career OBP, but crappy SLG. His one MVP award (1973 NL) was a JOKE. Willie Stargell should have won it in a walk (or if you want to give to a playoff team player, Tom Seaver, easily, deserved it). Hell, on his OWN team that season, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez were better.

Lets be clear, his career OPS+ of 118 is tied for 374th all time with the likes of Lonnie Smith, Mike Easler, Cecil Fielder, and Pat Burrell. True he played a ton of years and that counts for something, but he's not as good as some people think.

Pete Rose was the Mark Grace of the 1970s, except he had a longer career and bet on baseball... and didn't play for the only team with no chance to win a series by default

[Imran Siddiqui]

And he was a bit faster than Grace, so could get into the 1st or 2nd spots in the lineup and thus get more at bats per season.

[DanS]

Pettitte admits to limited HGH use...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/15/AR2007121501330.html?hpid=topnews

[Guynemer]

What a fascinating time in baseball history...

[Deity Dude]

Gambling in baseball has always been against the rules of baseball. Steroids and HGH were not always against the rules. Anyone who took them, especially if under supervision, before they were illegal did nothing wrong as far as I am concerned.