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Originally posted by Havak
I’m also not convinced either France or Australia were better teams than England in those games – I think your exasperation led to an incorrect statement (very rare for you).
I didn't mean better on the day. Obviously they weren't. Better in the sense that they had (a) better all-round games, and, perhaps more importantly, (b) the games to exploit England's known - or apparent - weaknesses. For various reasons, they didn't. The England forwards blew the Wallabies away all over the pitch, and I still think France committed tactical suicide. On the day, or on both days, England, despite their limitations, were better.
Just as, in my terms, approaching last night, the Boks were better than the Pumas. They have a great all-round game up against the Pumas' largely garryowen-based game. As it happened, it didn't matter. The Boks only had to cash in on Puma errors.
One thing they have done is play for each other – bodies have been put on the line in both games and I guess I couldn’t ask much more.
That's one of the big keys. Particularly against the Wallabies, I think.
Let me be clear – I’m a dogged old Englishman and I will be cheering my team on. I would hope you would all expect nothing less of me.
Mmm. My long term plan was for England to bow out at the pool stage and for you, exasperated, to buy a Scottish shirt.
I can’t blame England so much as point the finger at undoubtedly better sides that got knock out games badly wrong? It isn’t really England’s fault that higher ranked teams got beaten – those teams must look at themselves? It’s been a strange RWC all around.
No one has said it's England's fault. My frustration - and fury - is with those higher-ranked teams who have, for unknown reasons, got things wrong. And it has happened so often! Actually, I don't include the Wallabies in that basket. Everyone except the coaching staff knew the scrum was crap and that utter demolition was bound to happen sooner or later.
So it’s a mountain to climb. But I still have to cheer them on and hope they climb it. As I say above it goes with the blood – sheer Anglo Saxon stubbornness. Come on England!
Just imagine. Hitler invades England. You'd be posting on s***** threads.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Now that the Argies are out I'm definitely going to be cheering for England in the final. Unsurprisingly, I was cheering for them against the French...
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
Q. What do you call the World Cup play-off for 7th and 8th places?
A. The Bledisloe Cup.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
Welcome aboard the train we call “Hope over Expectation” Caligastia.
I didn't mean better on the day. Obviously they weren't.
It was, however, open to the interpretation that I took from it.
Mmm. My long term plan was for England to bow out at the pool stage and for you, exasperated, to buy a Scottish shirt.
You would be flying with porcine airways long before that would happen.
And it has happened so often!
And if only it would happen just once more.
Just imagine. Hitler invades England. You'd be posting on s***** threads.
Now there are two of the most terrifying thoughts you have posted in a long time!
A serious point if I may – I find myself agreeing with Dick Best (which in itself is scary). Making the final is papering over the cracks in English rugby. Change is still very much needed – thankfully as Finbar pointed out earlier in the tournament age will make some change inevitable.
It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
Originally posted by Havak
It was, however, open to the interpretation that I took from it.
Yes, and R. Andrew has interpreted England's performance to mean B. Ashton is a coach worthy of a new, long-term contract. Everyone makes mistakes, I guess.
Now there are two of the most terrifying thoughts you have posted in a long time!
Japan came within a gnat's crotchet* of invading Australia. At least I'd still be posting on a rugby thread. And a sumo thread.
*Tribute to Humph Lyttleton of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue", one of my favourite all-time radio shows.
A serious point if I may – I find myself agreeing with Dick Best (which in itself is scary). Making the final is papering over the cracks in English rugby. Change is still very much needed – thankfully as Finbar pointed out earlier in the tournament age will make some change inevitable.
More cracks than a third-rate porcelain factory. Here's one of my theories. England will never have a truly functional backline while J. Wilkinson is in the chair. As fine a player as he is in so many ways, he's a throwback to a time when the #10 existed for his boot. The first thing I would do is find a quality #10 and move Wilkinson to #12 where he will solve one of England's biggest problems.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
If England plays Hipkiss, they'll be more dangerous for sure. And Tait instead of Lewsey can't hurt either. And another winger rather than Sackey... In fact, keep Wilko, Robinson and change the rest of the backline. Steyn, Fourie, Habana and Pietersen are all better than their English counterparts. And, contrary to the French on Saturday, I suspect the Boks will use their backline.
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" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
The problem with dropping Sackey LdiC is that the other wing in the squad is Cueto - oh the horror!!
For this weekend I would personally like to see Tait-Wilko-Flood/Catt-Hipkiss-Sackey.
I'm no fan of Sackey but the idea of Cueto replacing him makes me shudder. And it is too late to summon Varndell over - who has some of Sackey's failings but who is far more potent a threat.
Long term I prefer Finbar's post gnat's crotchet suggestion, I'd like to see Geraghty-Wilko-Hipkiss (with maybe Strettle and Tait/Varndell on the wings in the 6N). That said Wilko will remain at stand off - it is almost sacrilege to move him for an England coach (despite the fact he made his England debut at 12!).
*edit* Sorry forgot FB - I think the Bath lad (Abendanon) should get a try out there.
It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt
However, a nasty bastard he may be, but I agree that Dick Best hits the nail on the head. To my mind the failure of the ABs and England's success is potentially a disaster. The embarrassing results of the centrally contracted unions (NZ, OZ, Ireland, Wales) and the surprising resilience of England and Argentina gives the clubs power in the club-country row.
Had the ABs walked over everyone as expected, then you’d expect the RFU to replace Baron and get much more control of the players.
I pray we don't end up with massive soccer type clubs and under prepared national sides. We all stand to loose if this happens. NZ, OZ and SA will lose their players, and England and France their love for internationals.
Originally posted by Havak
I'm no fan of Sackey but the idea of Cueto replacing him makes me shudder. And it is too late to summon Varndell over - who has some of Sackey's failings but who is far more potent a threat.
There's also the problem of fitting his and Nose's egos into the same billion square miles.
I think, sooner or later, someone will see sense that Wilkinson is a natural #12. He's not a natural #10 in the modern scheme of things.
I pray we don't end up with massive soccer type clubs and under prepared national sides. We all stand to loose if this happens. NZ, OZ and SA will lose their players, and England and France their love for internationals.
It's virtually impossible for it to happen in Australia and NZ. The structures are in place.
" ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.
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I had forgotten how badly NZ had thrashed France in the matches previous to this WC quarter final.
...people like to cry a lot...- Pekka ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority.- Snotty
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