Rugby World Cup: And The Winner Is ... (temp)

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Champs to Chumps felt unfair to England. Yes, I felt sorry for England. That's how sad they've become.

I fear for the All Blacks, too. Same problem they had in 2003. No challenges in the pool matches. Though this is a better team, and better coached. Andydog, I've never been convinced of Luke McAlister's Test status. He reveals exactly the same deficiencies in Tests as he does in S14. Kicks when he should pass, passes when he should kick, or does neither and just hangs onto the ball too long. He always seems to upset the backline fluidity. I don't know whether it's lack of maturity and/or experience, or whether it's simply mindset.

And F. Steyn has been cited for biting. I don't think the actual incident is on video. Certainly, at the time, the various replays didn't catch it. The aftermath, though, had the Tongan winger absolutely adamant he'd been bitten. And hard.

Cal - you might like to insert 2007 into the Rugby World Cup thread title. I forgot.

[Havak]

I was amazed that it was Steyn who got linked to the biting allegation. He looks such a clean cut young talent.

Dayglo back on the bench and Regan dropped altogether (even though he didn't even come on against Samoa). There is a logic here I am sure but I don't see it.

The same midfield starts this game - which in itself is just one of the many causes for concern.

Still we need to do Zinzan proud so that we get to the QF and rough the Aussies up a little bit for him. His wish is our command.

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I was equally surprised by the allegation. The Tongan winger was obviously very genuinely complaining, showing his finger to all and sundry, including the ref.

Nose on the bench is a mystery. Good, in one way, to see the midfield remain. First time in eons. Even if O. Barkley doesn't seem to know what to do with himself except get in the way. He did M. Tait few favours the other day. Where is T. Flood? At least Tait looks like he knows how to handle a ball, and even pass it.

I get confused with L. Moody. On which side of the scrum he actually belongs, I mean. Has he been picked in the right or wrong possie?

I still think England needs leadership on the field. Someone to boss them and bang heads together. M. Corry doesn't seem to be able to manage it. Wilko, for all his experience, and his controlling possie on the field, doesn't seem capable of it either.

[Havak]

I can't think of anyone in this squad who can do that - Catt and Dayglo perhaps though both blew it when such was needed in earlier games. I can't think of any in the Premiership come to that. We are short of forceful skippers!

That said give me Corry over Vickery anyday - at least Martin leads by example whereas Phil wasn't even really fit enough to make the squad (another big tick against Ashton there for naming his skipper months in advance).

Moody has been picked on the wrong side. He is a natural Six and very much at his best there. Having thrown Rees (the only natural 7 in the squad) to the South African Wolves it seems this young man's face no longer fits for Ashton. He will be back I am sure.

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Point taken. J**** wouldn't have stood around and let the mess of a second half happen last week. But his kind are rare.

[Havak]

Indeed. Rarer than Rocking horse do-do.

Interestingly the two main studio pundits for ITV coverage are J**** and Pienaar with Will Greenwood as the pitchside reporter. We are actually getting some decent rugby insights as a result (mainly because these three keep chatting amongst themselves and freezing the ITV anchor out of things!).

But I've been thinking more about skippers. Who are the forceful ones? I'd always assumed McCaw was in that mould but the Edinburgh performance required someone to give his team a beasting and he certainly failed that test.

[Andydog]

Not sure about that. What let us down was firstly the handling errors, and whenever that happened I can assure you Ritchie gave the guilty party a hard stare. I don't think he should have done anything more, a captain doesn't go up to his team mate and shout at him for dropping the ball.

The 2nd thing that let us down was poor decision making - too many offloads when we should have formed the ruck. Perhaps Ritchie could have been more vocal here, but I remember in my rugby days that everyone wanted to smash through a weak oppo, and often that lead to too many turnovers, just as we saw on Sunday.

Ritchie is no Fitzy, but he is competent leader from what I've seen so far, and much more so than anyone England has to offer. He had the team in frequent huddles. The set peace was good. The scrum was good, and he ensured that the side followed a structured game plan.

In a way this poor performance could be a good thing. The wake up call that the boys need to pull their heads in and start playing as intelligently as they were during the tri-nations.

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Let's adjourn to the official new thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170514