Rugby World Cup 2007 - Twiddling Our Thumbs!

[LDiCesare]

T'other night it was Wallabies -v- Boks from 1995. How much the game has changed. And not necessarily for the better. Apart from the occasional slip, there were no scrum re-sets.

Isn't that the same World Cup where the Boks in the semifinal systematically crumbled their scrum 5 meters from their line against a dominating French pack, with the ref never blowing the much needed penalty try?
Scrums did get down and had to be reset at the time. Plus it's slightly harder to ram someone's head in a scrum today because you're supposed to wait for the referee, who therefore can see you, before entering.
As for lineouts, looking at old matches where you couldn't lift, they really looked like a good random number generator.

[finbar]

Hopefully they'll show the semi-final in which the Boks so blatantly colluded with the ref against the French. I shall curse on your behalf.

I love the old lineouts. Like a barn dance. Ban lifting, I say. Bring back Chaos Theory.

B. Laporte has apologised in writing to the Australian ref he verbally abused. The letter is in French. Weren't you available for a translation?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

Isn't that the same World Cup where the Boks in the semifinal systematically crumbled their scrum 5 meters from their line against a dominating French pack, with the ref never blowing the much needed penalty try?

If only the French had won...then NZ wouldn't have been food-poisoned and lost to the cheating saffies!

[Havak]

No, they would have won the first half comfortably and then lost to a mercurial second half perfomance from the French.

Or was that 1999?

[finbar]

Leicester prop Julian White has ruled himself out of England World Cup contention for family reasons.

England's World Cup handling error stat has just plummeted.

[Havak]

If only.

With White ruled out, Ashton is likely to take four props from a list of skipper Phil Vickery, Bath's Matt Stevens, Andrew Sheridan of Sale, Saracens forward Kevin Yates and Perpignan's Perry Freshwater.

What happened to our depth with front rowers - four years ago the likes of Yates wouldn't have got near England contention. Yates for the uninitiated once bit part of a mans ear off and then got badly contaminated by a stint in S12 during his persona non grata period with English rugby.

[finbar]

Time to dust off your boots.

You can't have put on any weight in the foot department.

Surely.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
No, they would have won the first half comfortably and then lost to a mercurial second half perfomance from the French.

Or was that 1999?

[Havak]

I could have cited 2003 where they lost to a more workmanlike and arguably far less talented Wallaby outfit. Losing when favourites in a specific match at RWCs is something they have specialised in for too long – lets hope for all reasonable Kiwi fans like yourself that duck is about to be broken.

You are all going to be devastated when England retain under Day-Glo’s leadership of course.

Oh the boots still fit Finbar. Shorts don't though - and the shirt is somewhat tight around the six pack (which itself has graduated to a full case of 24).

There is a decent 'have your say' going from the BBC Sport site about the mass exodus of younger players from the ABs after the RWC. It’s called “Kiwis in Europe” and I highly recommend seeking it out. There are some wonderfully deluded comments by what I must assume is a Kiwi guy called TrippyHippy2.

I’ll summarise the best:

1) No player who moves abroad will ever get back in as the young players coming through the superb and endless NZ youth system will be playing a higher standard of rugby.in other words NPC and S14 are a much higher standard than top flight European Club fixtures, not to mention that Jack, Kelleher, Mauger, McAllister et al are trivially easy to replace. And NZ youth system? Is that the process of moving young Islanders to NZ so they are naturalised by 18?.

2) English clubs should compensate the NZRFU for the players they are ‘stealing’. Oh the irony of an Islander collecting Kiwi saying that!

3) English clubs give nothing back to the World game except of course that England, either doing well or being patsies, are essential to the healthy finances of the world game! That and the fact not all ABs players are heading to England anyway!.

When your union is leaking players it has to be tackled. The Ostriche approach above might create laughs for Englishmen like myself but it won’t help the problem. The Autumn Internationals at twickers are the most lucrative in world rugby – perhaps if the ABs pencilled in an England game there every year it would help the coffers? That’s a serious suggestion on my part – also an autumn tour of England-Wales-Ireland and France is four sell out tests and should help the AB coffers enormously.

I’m curious what our old Kiwi lags like Cal and Ravagon make of it – does the exodus of younger players concern them or as with TH2 are they confident that all the losses can be easily replaced?

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
I could have cited 2003 where they lost to a more workmanlike and arguably far less talented Wallaby outfit. Losing when favourites in a specific match at RWCs is something they have specialised in for too long – lets hope for all reasonable Kiwi fans like yourself that duck is about to be broken.

Ya de ya de ya. I've noticed that RWC matches tend to be won by those who want it more on the day. You can have a team that looks superior on paper, but against a team who comes out frothing at the nostrils, it can go either way. And it does. And everyone seems to step up against NZ. And I recall England's strongest ever side just about got beaten by a fired up SA side in the last world cup. Hell they just about got beaten by Aussie in the final, and England were a class above them on paper.

And NZ youth system? Is that the process of moving young Islanders to NZ so they are naturalised by 18?[/I].

Still rancid old bait, you would do well for yourself to cut this sort of stuff out. With comments like these, you only demonstrate your ignorance of NZ, its culture, and the values of the people.

I’m curious what our old Kiwi lags like Cal and Ravagon make of it – does the exodus of younger players concern them or as with TH2 are they confident that all the losses can be easily replaced?

I can't speak for those guys but it is concerning. At the moment its guys who are nearing the end or are in the middle of their careers. If we see younger players moving then people will really start crapping themselves.

[finbar]

C. Jack and C. Hayman are the big losses. No one in their class is on the horizon, from my observation of S14 anyway. K. Robinson, presumably, will take over as senior lock. He's (a) a great character; (b) tough as boots; (c) not world class; and (d) injury-prone.

I don't think B. Kelleher is a great loss. More front than class, that lad. Witness the fact that he dates porn stars. L. McAlister is a great S14 player, unproven at Test level. Said to be the next A. Mauger, but shows none of that player's nouse. Anyway, I still have a suspicion that McAlister will stay. There's a lot of contract levering going on.

They'll never struggle for quality backs. Brendan Leonard, on the bench tomorrow, is a terrific young player.

[Havak]

McAllister is 23 I believe, Mauger 26, Jack 28 and Hayman 27. Not retirees like the Zinny generation were surely?

As for the ignorance bit humour aimed at a sporting body and it's team for something definitely done by them in the past should never be perceived as referencing an entire nation and it's culture. The difference between my intended message and what you received was miles apart here.

I'll review my signal to noise ratio but I won't auto-censor based on other peoples views - trust you can understand that pov. Of course if you were simply worried for me how I come across then please don't - I don't give a stuff what others think of me on the whole.

[finbar]

Spoken like a front-rower.

[Havak]

Intelligent and insightful you mean?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
I could have cited 2003 where they lost to a more workmanlike and arguably far less talented Wallaby outfit. Losing when favourites in a specific match at RWCs is something they have specialised in for too long – lets hope for all reasonable Kiwi fans like yourself that duck is about to be broken.

Yes, and with the exodus of players after the RWC, it might be our last chance for a while.

You are all going to be devastated when England retain under Day-Glo’s leadership of course.

Oh the boots still fit Finbar. Shorts don't though - and the shirt is somewhat tight around the six pack (which itself has graduated to a full case of 24).

There is a decent 'have your say' going from the BBC Sport site about the mass exodus of younger players from the ABs after the RWC. It’s called “Kiwis in Europe” and I highly recommend seeking it out. There are some wonderfully deluded comments by what I must assume is a Kiwi guy called TrippyHippy2.

I’ll summarise the best:

1) No player who moves abroad will ever get back in as the young players coming through the superb and endless NZ youth system will be playing a higher standard of rugby.in other words NPC and S14 are a much higher standard than top flight European Club fixtures, not to mention that Jack, Kelleher, Mauger, McAllister et al are trivially easy to replace. And NZ youth system? Is that the process of moving young Islanders to NZ so they are naturalised by 18?.

2) English clubs should compensate the NZRFU for the players they are ‘stealing’. Oh the irony of an Islander collecting Kiwi saying that!

3) English clubs give nothing back to the World game except of course that England, either doing well or being patsies, are essential to the healthy finances of the world game! That and the fact not all ABs players are heading to England anyway!.

When your union is leaking players it has to be tackled. The Ostriche approach above might create laughs for Englishmen like myself but it won’t help the problem. The Autumn Internationals at twickers are the most lucrative in world rugby – perhaps if the ABs pencilled in an England game there every year it would help the coffers? That’s a serious suggestion on my part – also an autumn tour of England-Wales-Ireland and France is four sell out tests and should help the AB coffers enormously.

I’m curious what our old Kiwi lags like Cal and Ravagon make of it – does the exodus of younger players concern them or as with TH2 are they confident that all the losses can be easily replaced?

It's definitely a big concern, and I think all your points are good ones. I'd also add to point #3 that if it weren't for English rugby the U.S. team would never even qualify for a spot in the RWC, as all their best players are forced to play for English sides in order to make a living.

So...I'm definitely concerned, but I reckon NZ has the talent and structure to rebuild eventually. We just need to figure out how to stop losing players.

I also agree with you about the poaching of islanders. I would hate for Rugby to degenerate into a similar state of affairs as U.S. football, where the location of the team means nothing - as the players are from all areas of the country. If a team is associated with a geographic location it should accurately represent that location IMO.