Emery v Peters

[Cort Haus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1w2JYSohBQ

What happens to these guys after such a fight? By the sounds of it they get a five minute penalty then just carry on as if nothing had happened.

In some sports, the protaganists would get a slop bucket of morality thrown over them for such a ruck by the sport's or society's guardians and get banned for ages. My football team is about to get shat on from a great height for some minor handbags in a cup final on saturday.

What are the limits in hockey?

[Asher]

This made news across the pond?

[Asher]

Re: Emery v Peters

Originally posted by Cort Haus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1w2JYSohBQ

What happens to these guys after such a fight? By the sounds of it they get a five minute penalty then just carry on as if nothing had happened.

In some sports, the protaganists would get a slop bucket of morality thrown over them for such a ruck by the sport's or society's guardians and get banned for ages. My football team is about to get shat on from a great height for some minor handbags in a cup final on saturday.

What are the limits in hockey?

In this fight, Emery (a goalie, it's very rare for them to fight) and the other goalie (Biron) were both given a "game misconduct" (ejected from the game).

The usual punishment for fighting is a 5 minute penalty in the box, then you can come back. The fights really aren't that serious, usually they're friendly believe it or not. It's not a rare sight to see guys laughing it up with eachother in the box after they fought.

The other night, for instance, a Calgary player (Wayne Primeau) fought a San Jose player (Brenden Bell). In the process of the fight, Primeau sustained a large gash above the eye (likely due to equipment), so he asked to stop the fight -- Bell immediately did, and they both skated off to the box to the cheer of the crowd.

Fighting is integral to hockey. Don't let Americans who've no idea what they're talking about tell you otherwise. If you've got a team without fighters, the other teams punish you for it. They make hard, questionable hits that injure your players and really hurt your team. Fights are a way of regulation on the ice. Ask the Edmonton Oiler fans on here what they think of having "Enforcers" around.

As luck would have it, the fight you're referencing is a directly result of a hit against one of the team's star players. The hit was a vicious from-behind hit that left the guy out with a concussion -- he's still out. Since no penalty was called on the play, the team needed to let the other team know that it's not kosher and it won't fly...

[Asher]

BTW, this is why I say you guys should check it out when the NHL hits the UK. It's a real man's sport.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Asher
This made news across the pond?

No, someone posted it on a forum for my football team, in the context of a minor brawl which my club will probably get in trouble for. Most melees in football are trivial compared to hockey. I wish the tut-tutting authorities would realise that.

[Cort Haus]

Re: Re: Emery v Peters

Originally posted by Asher

In this fight, Emery (a goalie, it's very rare for them to fight) and the other goalie (Biron) were both given a "game misconduct" (ejected from the game).

The usual punishment for fighting is a 5 minute penalty in the box, then you can come back. The fights really aren't that serious, usually they're friendly believe it or not. It's not a rare sight to see guys laughing it up with eachother in the box after they fought.

I thought that Peters came in to get involved after Biron, who was getting some stick, and then Peters waded in and thumped the crap out of Emre.

"Violent conduct" in football means a straight red card (sent off / ejected from the game) plus a three match ban. That's for starters, and you don't even have to throw a punch.

Most scuffles are mostly 'handbags', as we call it, and most are only getting involved to try and seperate the original protaganists. Yesterday three players got sent off, and two booked (cautioned - no dismissal or ban) in the incident at 2:25 in the clip below. The media have gone ape**** over it, and there will probably be heavy fines for the clubs (tens of thousands of pounds), and maybe extra bans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VqfOFUKXz0

Unfortunately there's a lot of feigning injury, including the bloke who's acting as if he's shot at 3:25.

[Asher]

I thought that Peters came in to get involved after Biron, who was getting some stick, and then Peters waded in and thumped the crap out of Emre.

Yeah, that is another thing. Emery is a big fighting enthusiast (his mask used to have Mike Tyson on it). He had a bigass grin the whole time.

Biron is one of the quietest/gentlemanly players in hockey, I think that was his only fight. He got wailed on, so Peters (an "enforcer"), sought redemption.

[Kontiki]

Here's some classic Emery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzyOBhk5Uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=059GwpwjJRs

I also saw some footage on TV of when Emery was in the minors and he came flying into a ongoing melee. I wish I could find that video on the 'net.

[Ninot]

Very good description of hockey fights, Asher .
I enjoy your blog as well.

[Lord Avalon]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Here's some classic Emery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZzyOBhk5Uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=059GwpwjJRs

I also saw some footage on TV of when Emery was in the minors and he came flying into a ongoing melee. I wish I could find that video on the 'net.

I don't think I've seen a goalie actually go at and fight another nongoalie. If they get involved, they whack somebody with their stick and take a dive when a player so much as shoves them in retaliaton.

Usually they just stay out of the fights, what with all the extra padding they have on.

[Cort Haus]

But is there no sanction that goes beyond the game? It is accepted that the referee/ umpires cannot administer justice so the teams have to take the law into their own hands?

What does a player have to do to get a three game ban, for example - or a fine for themselves or their team?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
But is there no sanction that goes beyond the game? It is accepted that the referee/ umpires cannot administer justice so the teams have to take the law into their own hands?

What does a player have to do to get a three game ban, for example - or a fine for themselves or their team?

It's funny you mention that. Emery just got off a 3-game ban, THAT was his first game back.

You get bans for doing things severely unsportsmanlike -- and consensual fights don't make that cut. Emery hacked at a player's face with his stick, and got a 3-game ban for that. That's an example of something you can do to get yourself a suspension. Here's the slash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic4TWADZayo

Also ,regarding the fight in the OT, the coach got a $10,000 fine for sending out three "enforcers" on the ice after the hit to send the message which started the whole thing.

[Lord Avalon]

There's an instigating minor (2min) penalty for starting a fight, like if you're going after somebody and drop your gloves first. If you're a repeat instigator, after the third time, you get suspended two games. After the fourth, it's 4 gms, after the fifth, 6 gms.

NHL Rule 56 - Fisticuffs

I heard next year, if approved, it's going to be 5 times before the first suspension.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
But is there no sanction that goes beyond the game? It is accepted that the referee/ umpires cannot administer justice so the teams have to take the law into their own hands?

Yes, usually, for a couple of reasons.

First, it is a game where physical punishment is allowed and part of the rules. Players get belted unconcious in clean, by the rules hits, and then there's other sorts of hits and fouls. A player can deliver a career ending hit and simply get a 2 minute penalty for it (if it's against the rules). The season is long and the playoffs are a series of seven game series. There has to be a deterent to gooning the other teams' good players.

And then there is the fact that many dirty hits, and otherwise, never get penalised. The game moves too fast and even with four pairs of eyes on it things get missed. Just this evening a player delivered a blatant high stick on another (smacked him in the face, probably unintentionally). It drew blood, which is a four minute penalty. However, none of the officials saw it, thus no penalty.

The incident tonight isn't one that would cause an immediate fight (most high sticks are accidental and the players accept that) but something like an intentional spearing (driving the butt end or blade of your stick into the midsection or other vulnerable part of the body) and other dirty play can be and are missed by the officials.

It's been part of NA hockey forever that there is a code. Players who do certain things will get pummeled. Teams will sometimes be held responsible for the actions of a player (all the members of the offending team are fair game). That's what led to the Emery-Peters incident; a perceived dirty hit led the team of the victim to say 'OK, let's play old time hockey.'

The league will only deal with especially egregious incidents of dirty hits and fighting. In this case, I was surprised that Peteres didn't get some games and that the only fallout was a $10K fine to his coach, but I've seen it before too so I shouldn't be shocked.

Oh, and for Ming. Watch the clips of the Ottawa-Buffalo brawl and listen. The crowd was in Buffalo. Listen to the roaring of the crowd and tell Asher and I that Americans don't like the tradition of fighting in the NHL.

[Cort Haus]

Interesting. Thanks for your comments, guys.