Sarah Palin: Completely bat****

[Drake Tungsten]

I skipped the entire back-and-forth since I could only read half of it.

[chequita guevara]

Cause private insurance companies never refuse to pay for life saving drugs

When private insurance companies do it, it's from a "life" panel.

[Ramo]

Calm down, Ramo. You beat up on DD here. that's pretty obvious. But that doesn't make you right on the larger issue.

I didn't make an argument on cost control here. Which reminds me that I do need to write out a comprehensive argument at some point.

What I did say is that the cynicism is not consistent with the "deather" argument. You're not likely to have ruthless worse-than-NHS rationing in Medicare without significant reductions in cost growth.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't disagree with you.

[Straybow]

[Q=Kidicious;5661957]

No, the death panels aren't the consultations. The death panels are the bureaucrats who decide from afar which medicines and treatments and patients will get funded.

When there aren't enough resources decisions like that have to be made. For example, when a ship is sinking the women and children get the life rafts first.[/Q]The resources aren't scarce and the ship isn't sinking, not in the US. In Canada and Britain, yes, the resources are scarce because the bureaucrats decided not to pay for enough equipment and medicine and man-hours to treat the people placed in their charge.

Canada's health ministry just announced they've cancelled 6000 scheduled surgeries because they've decided they don't want to pay for them. See how much fun socialized medicine can be?

[chequita guevara]

Maybe if your conservatives would stop underfunding programs like that, it wouldn't be a problem. That's really what it boils down to. Conservative in government underfund programs so they won't work. In the private sector, they just keep the programs for themselves and let everyone else suffer.

Obviously the solution is, kill all the conservatives and take their stuff.

[Asher]

Canada's health ministry just announced they've cancelled 6000 scheduled surgeries because they've decided they don't want to pay for them. See how much fun socialized medicine can be?

Link?

Considering Canada's national health ministry doesn't schedule or have anything to do with surgeries, that's quite an awesome accomplishment.

You're an absolute tool. You're probably referring to Vancouver (which is a city, not a country) talking about postponing surgeries because, as you may or may not know, there's a massive budget shortfall in BC ($3B or so) and there's no money. It's not that they don't want to pay for them, it's that they can't at the moment. FWIW, it's just in a planning document that has not been approved or discussed officially. It was just on the list of things that would need to be cut unless funding comes through (read: it's a ploy to get more money)

If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you shouldn't misconstrue at every possible ****ing opportunity. I swear to God, it's all you Republicans do these days. It is absolutely ****ing pathetic. Are you THAT scared of universal health care that you resort to fearmongering and intentional inaccuracies? Jesus Christ.

[Straybow]

[Q=Ramo;5661979]

Palin said the treatment of her down's syndrome boy would be at risk under the plan, too.

That is utterly retarded. What exactly is the mechanism in any of the pieces of legislation on the table that would facilitate such a thing?[/Q]
The fact that the single payer decides how much will be paid for treatment, and who will be eligible, and the guy Obama has in charge has said that people outside the ages of 15 to 40 are not on the "priority curve."

[Straybow]

[Q=chequita guevara;5662473]Maybe if your conservatives would stop underfunding programs like that, it wouldn't be a problem. That's really what it boils down to. Conservative in government underfund programs so they won't work. In the private sector, they just keep the programs for themselves and let everyone else suffer.[/Q]Conservatives aren't in charge in Canada, che.

Obviously the solution is, kill all the conservatives and take their stuff.

But then there'd be nobody to hire your worthless arse, and your family would starve when the spoils ran out.

[Asher]

Here's the article that Stray is probably using to fearmongering from. As you can see, he's a douchebag who believes you are all stupid, or he is stupid himself and can't read. I report, you decide.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/vancouver-coastal-health-to-cut-surgeries-ndp-critic-says/article1247389/

Vancouver Coastal Health to cut surgeries, NDP critic says

Health authority considering the deferral of elective procedures as one way to save money, according to spokeswoman


The Vancouver Coastal Health Authority is planning to shut down nearly one-quarter of its operating rooms and cancel thousands of elective surgeries between Sept. 1 and March 31 in a bid to bridge a $90-million budget gap, NDP health critic Adrian Dix charged yesterday.

Mr. Dix, MLA for Vancouver-Kingsway, said documents leaked to him by “health authority sources” propose cutting 6,250 surgeries, about 24 per cent of all scheduled procedures, to the end of fiscal 2009-10.

“What they're doing is deferring these surgeries until the next fiscal year to save money. It's going to increase wait times for people, and thousands of medically necessary procedures won't be performed,” he said.

The plan targets cataract operations, coronary bypasses, joint replacements, certain types of neurosurgery and a variety of elective procedures, Mr. Dix said.

At an average of $6,000 per surgery, he estimated the move will save the health authority more than $37-million.

However, the VCHA's senior media relations officer, Anna Marie D'Angelo, described the proposal as “a planning document that outlined one possible approach we might be looking at.”

“No decision has been made to implement it … so it's inappropriate to say it's a done deal,” Ms. D'Angelo said. “It's certainly not going to be implemented any time soon.”

While the organization's $90-million deficit is “significant,” Ms. D'Angelo said it's manageable in the context of the VCHA's $2.9-billion annual budget.

Last month, health authority officials announced plans to save about $600,000 by postponing one-third of scheduled surgeries during the 2010 Olympics and this year's extended two-week spring break.

Likewise, the Fraser Health Authority, facing a $130-million deficit, announced it will “postpone” 2,000 elective surgeries over a four-week period during the Olympics.

Health Minister Kevin Falcon, who was unavailable for comment yesterday – he's on his honeymoon – has acknowledged that B.C.'s health authorities will “cumulatively end up with a $360-million deficit” if they are unable to reduce their costs by about 3.5 per cent across the board.

Amid increasing pressure to cut, the resignation of three of B.C.'s six health authority CEOs this year has created turmoil in the senior management ranks at a critical time.

Vancouver Coastal Health CEO Ida Goodreau jumped ship in February for a job in private-sector health care. Interim CEO Dr. David Ostrow was officially installed as her replacement late last month.

Vancouver Island Health Authority CEO Howard Waldner stepped down in April, only to announce a month later he would be staying on. That was followed in short order by the resignation of the VIHA's second-in-command, chief operating officer Mike Conroy.

And late last week, long-time Interior Health Authority CEO Murray Ramsden revealed he will call it quits Dec. 31.

Mr. Ramsden, whose organization is facing a $40-million deficit, said the health authority's recent fiscal challenges had no bearing on his decision.

“In terms of numbers, this is probably the biggest shortfall we've had,” said Mr. Ramsden, who has served as the IHA's boss since the organization was formed in 2001.

“But financial crises in health care are nothing new. It's always like this. I'm actually going to miss that part of the job,” he said.

However, Mr. Dix suggested there's a high level of frustration among senior health-authority managers, who warned the government of a looming budget crisis as early as April, 2008.

Instead of dealing with the problem, the government ordered health authorities to withhold their 2009-10 service plans until May 13, the day after the provincial election, Mr. Dix said.

“These are cuts that they knew were coming and that they didn't tell the truth about,” he said.

[Asher]

Conservatives aren't in charge in Canada, che.

You might want to take your head out of your ass and look at which party is in power in Canada.

Hint: The name of the Party is, quite literally, "Conservative Party".

[Straybow]

Link?

Considering Canada's national health ministry doesn't schedule or have anything to do with surgeries, that's quite an awesome accomplishment.

Heard it on the radio, can't remember that much detail. Doesn't matter whether it was Canada or some smaller part, it was the "single payer" entity that said there wasn't enough money.

Single payer comes out of the general funds, and they can run out because nobody can force the pols save money for the bad times. Insurance companies are required to reserve funds for times like this, and they have to keep paying for surgeries. They are legally bound to pay out according to their underwritten policies.

[Ramo]

[Q=Ramo;5661979]

Palin said the treatment of her down's syndrome boy would be at risk under the plan, too.

That is utterly retarded. What exactly is the mechanism in any of the pieces of legislation on the table that would facilitate such a thing?[/Q]
The fact that the single payer decides how much will be paid for treatment, and who will be eligible, and the guy Obama has in charge has said that people outside the ages of 15 to 40 are not on the "priority curve."

Dear lord, the 'tartitude here is epic.

1. There is NO single payer in any of the pieces of legislation that might be passed. The public option envisioned by the House is expected by the CBO to have ~10 million people by the end of the decade. That is far less than the number of people currently enrolled in Medicare. Even if the public option became the dominant payer in the market, Caribou Barbie would still be able to purchase private insurance to cover her kid (see, i.e. the UK). Or she could pay for the treatment out of pocket.

2. The person in charge of the federal administration of health care is a gal. Her name is Kathleen Sebelius. The person in charge of getting health care through Congress is also a gal. Her name is Nancy-Ann DeParle. Zeke Emanuel is one of many advisers at the White House.

3. Nowhere did Emanuel say anything about cutting services to downs syndrome kids. Money isn't infinite. Responsible people like Emanuel are interested in coming up with a fair and equitable way to distribute resources.

[Asher]

Also note that politicians in Canada are elected by the people. If surgeries are cancelled due to lack of funding from politicians, you can bet they'd have a hard time getting re-elected (read: this is a stunt to get more funding)

[KrazyHorse]

"Washington Monument strategy". First heard that term a couple of months ago.