Which military capabilities needs Europe to expand most urgently to deter another Russian aggression?

[Berzerker]

Russia didn't even bring an army to take Ukraine and Putin's gonna take eastern Europe now?

[dannubis]

My god, Berz, you are bell-end stupid.

[BeBMan]

At least we're getting updated about the Kremlin's take on things regularly.

[Provost Harrison]

Russia didn't even bring an army to take Ukraine and Putin's gonna take eastern Europe now?

They brought an army. Didn't necessarily leave with one

[Berzerker]

it's funny watching people accuse Moscow of propaganda

keep arming those head chopping moderate rebels and swastika wearing non-Nazis

no, it's very sad actually... Between its various wars, sanctions and bioweapons the USA has killed millions of people

[giblets]

Russia didn't even bring an army to take Ukraine and Putin's gonna take eastern Europe now?

Stalin didn't bring an army to take Finland in 1939

[Bereta_Eder]

As I say paiktis, the main problem I have with an EU army is a FOMO for my country. And although I wouldn't serve (too old now anyway), I already do my part for European defence.

I don't think anyone wants the UK to be left out assuming the UK wants to be let in.

But is is a long road with many hurdles.

For one, the thing that trump says about lifting military expenditures (something that doesnt affect Greece because it is way up anyway and always has been even in the recession) is not truthful.

Iceland a member of NAGTO has 0% military expenditures. No problem there.

Trump says: give me money and buy from me


we say no. we will lift military expenditures but we buy european

also unfortunately there is a divide that can stall thigns

france doesnt want external players in the eu army (that is norway UK and turkey)\

Germany (and italy and spain) does, including turkey


I hve no proble with UK or norway but good luck convincing the average greek to subsidize the turkish military complex. It's instant veto.


So UK and Norway not a problem, turkey I think has slim chances to receive any of the 150 billion euroes.


then again we have s sh!t goiv so anything is possible.

there are many hurdles. one thing is clear the US has no chance of ever been believed again. and ukranians of course have their own plans

[Geronimo]

I don't think anyone wants the UK to be left out assuming the UK wants to be let in.

But is is a long road with many hurdles.

For one, the thing that trump says about lifting military expenditures (something that doesnt affect Greece because it is way up anyway and always has been even in the recession) is not truthful.

Iceland a member of NAGTO has 0% military expenditures. No problem there.

Trump says: give me money and buy from me


we say no. we will lift military expenditures but we buy european

also unfortunately there is a divide that can stall thigns

france doesnt want external players in the eu army (that is norway UK and turkey)\

Germany (and italy and spain) does, including turkey


I hve no proble with UK or norway but good luck convincing the average greek to subsidize the turkish military complex. It's instant veto.


So UK and Norway not a problem, turkey I think has slim chances to receive any of the 150 billion euroes.


then again we have s sh!t goiv so anything is possible.

there are many hurdles. one thing is clear the US has no chance of ever been believed again. and ukranians of course have their own plans

the problem with a country changing from possibly being believed to never again ever being believed on the basis of the actions of one leader is that it's hard to justify the logic of it.

[Bereta_Eder]

that's a convoluted, a pseudo orthological way to say that what I say is bullsh!t

yet you are wrong. what goes on now with the US is unheard of and that country will never be trusted again. fool me once, your bad, fool my twice my bad

if once what happened was possible what's to guarantee that it will never happen again?

nothing hence trust is lost for ever. US is an untrustworthy ex ally for ALL of its allies and for ever. maybe after 50 years of honoring your accords, maybe MAYBE you'll get some trust back from some people

[Geronimo]

LOL. nobody believes Russia now either, with Putin's treaty shredding but with a change in Russian leadership people would re-evaluate the credibility of the new leadership almost immediately. What makes you think that anybody who matters thinks credibility exists at the country level rather than the regime level?

[Bereta_Eder]

meanwhile we're in the middle of a trade war and the US is a fascist expansionist power

[Bereta_Eder]

LOL. nobody believes Russia now either, with Putin's treaty shredding but with a change in Russian leadership people would re-evaluate the credibility of the new leadership almost immediately. What makes you think that anybody who matters thinks credibility exists at the country level rather than the regime level?

Again your way of thinking is so far off the main stream I can't understand what you're saying,

Do you honestly say that if putin leaves, russia will change to switzerland?

Do you also say that half and more of the US didn't vote for trump?

[Bereta_Eder]

Also I do and everyone believes Russia. It is very constistent and predictable. It's the US who is an unpredictable traitorous jerk excuse of a country and gov

[giblets]

Germany is somehow more trusted than the US now

[Geronimo]

Germany is somehow more trusted than the US now

because they don't have Trump as president perhaps? They haven't had a leader whose word was anywhere near that worthless since Hitler and his third reich died. Even the GDR leaders were arguably far more trustworthy than Trump has made himself in his second term.