The final betrayal of Ukraine by the people of the United States of America

[N35t0r]

The reason you want to pretend the US under trump is worse is because the US under Trump surprised you.

I seen to recall several people, in this very forum, telling those of us who were watching against Trump that we were overreacting, that it was all bluster to get votes, didn't we have 4 years of him already and "nothing particularly bad happened"?

That Trump said he didn't know what project 2025 was, so he wasn't going to implement any of it (so I guess that fulfilling 1/3 of the points mentioned in it in less than a month and a half is a coincidence)

[Geronimo]

I seen to recall several people, in this very forum, telling those of us who were watching against Trump that we were overreacting, that it was all bluster to get votes, didn't we have 4 years of him already and "nothing particularly bad happened"?

That Trump said he didn't know what project 2025 was, so he wasn't going to implement any of it (so I guess that fulfilling 1/3 of the points mentioned in it in less than a month and a half is a coincidence)

I seem to recall several people in this very forum being very poor at reading other's posts.

I objected to the pressing of charges against candidate Trump especially the New York case. I argued it would probably only help him politically.

I asserted he would be a lousy president but that no way in hell would he be a genocidal fascist. I still will be surprised if he engages in any kind of genocide, including the suggestion for ethnic cleansing (which would be a kind of genocide by any reasonably definition) in his noxious public suggestion to ethnically cleanse Gaza. Or a deportation campaign aiming for racial changes rather than deportation intended to pander to low income low skilled citizens of all ethnic groups and protected classes.

I *do* have a history of acknowledging when I am shown to be wrong. For these assertions that time is in no way ripe.

The magnitude of Trump's fascist crimes to date is essentially zero.

With respect to project 2025 I very clearly said that it didn't matter because Trump is the kind of narcissist who has no principles and little to no respect for people who disagree with him or for whom continuing to agree with ends up at odds with his whim. Project 2025 will not reveal Trump's goals and might not even reveal his methods.

I seem to recall a lot of people in this forum claiming project 2025 was a white supremacist Christian handbook to genocide so I didn't read it because I remember quite clearly regretting trying to read mein kampf and even regretting finishing it. I've started reading the publicly available Project 2025 materials now mainly thanks to Elok's assertion and as I do so it's getting increasingly hard to feel like I have a lot of crow to eat here.

I voted for Harris purely to oppose Trump. I opposed lies and exaggerations about trump purely to oppose Trump. what exactly is your problem with my posts here?

[Geronimo]

When I say Trump "surprised you" I mean the kind of surprise of an unannounced ambush not the kind of surprise where it didn't make sense in hindsight given the history and character of the ambusher.

[Dauphin]

So Trump talks about dropping sanctions on Russia (for what in return Mr Art of the Deal), while enforcing tariffs on Canada.

When will Republicans grow a backbone and realise the fifth column is their President?

[Dauphin]

Forgot to put in the dropping of tracking and defending against Russian based cyber threats. Cos, apparently he thinks there are no threats from Russia anymore.

[EPW]

When will Republicans grow a backbone and realise the fifth column is their President?​

When the recession hits hopefully.

[BeBMan]

Trump is surely a better Russian president than Putin.

[Provost Harrison]

When the recession hits hopefully.

Tariffs have kicked in, widespread boycotts of US products. Now we just sit back and wait.

Would also like to comment on Trump's stooge Nigel Farage who made (given his party demographic) what I would expect to be a career-ending comment for anyone else. When asked (by James O'Brien, LBC) regarding the attire of Zelenskiy and whether he thought the heckling was appropriate, he replied "Well if I were seeing Trump I'd wear a suit and polish my shoes". James counter-replied with "Winston Churchill in times of war didn't wear a suit" and Farage replied "Well Churchill wasn't visiting Trump!". I mean holy crap, he should be ****ing spit roast for that (and not in the fun way, besides I'm sure he regularly gets that from Trump and Putin), mother****ing traitor.

[Aeson]

If Trump were president back then:

https://youtu.be/CkcsKuMKooo?si=pQeGLLn3iwQXQVM4

[Aeson]

Trump has suspended all aid to Ukraine.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, we guaranteed Ukraine safety in a deal for giving up their nukes. This betrayal will lead to nuclear proliferation, and an increase in the risk of nuclear warfare going forward. No nation can rely on the US backstopping them anymore.

There's a video out there of Marco Rubio making this point years ago in regards to Ukraine. Now he's sulking on a couch.

[Dauphin]

Tariffs have kicked in, widespread boycotts of US products. Now we just sit back and wait.

Would also like to comment on Trump's stooge Nigel Farage who made (given his party demographic) what I would expect to be a career-ending comment for anyone else. When asked (by James O'Brien, LBC) regarding the attire of Zelenskiy and whether he thought the heckling was appropriate, he replied "Well if I were seeing Trump I'd wear a suit and polish my shoes". James counter-replied with "Winston Churchill in times of war didn't wear a suit" and Farage replied "Well Churchill wasn't visiting Trump!". I mean holy crap, he should be ****ing spit roast for that (and not in the fun way, besides I'm sure he regularly gets that from Trump and Putin), mother****ing traitor.

Farage and my dad are members of the same golf club. The interesting observation he has is that the people at his club who are enthralled by or at least sympathetic to his bull**** are those who are largely self-made men with no international experience and often not university educated (think Pimlico plumbers but usually smaller scale). Anyone with international business experience (worked abroad or had foreign customers/suppliers) think he’s an absolute knob-end.

[Dauphin]

For clarity, my dad is the international variety.

[Bereta_Eder]

Trump is surely a better Russian president than Putin.

100%

that SOB just cut all military aid to ukraine.

Goodbye USA.

"fun" while it lasted

[Provost Harrison]

Farage and my dad are members of the same golf club. The interesting observation he has is that the people at his club who are enthralled by or at least sympathetic to his bull**** are those who are largely self-made men with no international experience and often not university educated (think Pimlico plumbers but usually smaller scale). Anyone with international business experience (worked abroad or had foreign customers/suppliers) think he’s an absolute knob-end.

I can't even conceive what people see in Farage, especially where he will not defy Trump no matter how harmful that is to his own political chances. Its like he's got in too deep with the mob and survival is coming in above self-interest at the moment.

[Geronimo]

Trump has suspended all aid to Ukraine.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, we guaranteed Ukraine safety in a deal for giving up their nukes. This betrayal will lead to nuclear proliferation, and an increase in the risk of nuclear warfare going forward. No nation can rely on the US backstopping them anymore.

There's a video out there of Marco Rubio making this point years ago in regards to Ukraine. Now he's sulking on a couch.

I wonder if Trump will break more treaties in this term than Putin managed to in all of his years in national office in Russia? At this rate it might not be difficult. That doesn't even consider that some treaties like those governing the WTO are arguably far more consequential to abandon than others.

[Geronimo]

100%

that SOB just cut all military aid to ukraine.

Goodbye USA.

"fun" while it lasted

at the moment I'm stressing most about intel. Is Trump still sharing intel with ukraine? can ukraine trust the intel? is Trump sharing intel with Putin?