USA: Cheese(burger) Eating Surrender Monkies?

[MOBIUS]

Trump just surrendered Ukraine to Russia, or am I missing something...? 🤷

Have all the pro-Trump/pro-Ukraine supporters brains* exploded yet? 🤯

And people say I'm pro-Putin...!? 🤣🤣🤣






*Sorry, that's unfair: they clearly don't have any brains 🤷

[N35t0r]

Trump just surrendered Ukraine to Russia, or am I missing something...? 🤷

Have all the pro-Trump/pro-Ukraine supporters brains* exploded yet? 🤯

And people say I'm pro-Putin...!? 🤣🤣🤣






*Sorry, that's unfair: they clearly don't have any brains 🤷

So because you hate Trump, and Trump is pro-Putin, then you can't be pro-Putin?

I guess you're also not pro-logic.

[MOBIUS]

I hate both Trump and Putin. My logic is consistent.

My point is there are plenty of people that hate Putin but love Trump (including here on Poly), which in my opinion is a logically inconsistent point of view.

Also I theorise that a lot of what Putin has done has been out of necessity or realpolitik, whereas Trump is cruel because he can... It feels clear to me who the worse person is in that situation.

It's just a theory, of course, and I'm certainly not defending Putin for his actions and never have. But he is a product of US foreign policy and for that reason, I can certainly see the logic to his actions.

[N35t0r]

I hate both Trump and Putin. My logic is consistent.

My point is there are plenty of people that hate Putin but love Trump (including here on Poly), which in my opinion is a logically inconsistent point of view.

Also I theorise that a lot of what Putin has done has been out of necessity or realpolitik, whereas Trump is cruel because he can... It feels clear to me who the worse person is in that situation.

It's just a theory, of course, and I'm certainly not defending Putin for his actions and never have. But he is a product of US foreign policy and for that reason, I can certainly see the logic to his actions.

Nothing Putin has done has been out of necessity, and his realpolitik seems to be severely lacking, because his apparent goal of restoring the Russian empire is clearly very detrimental to Russia and Russians.

[Edit:]
Also, he has ****ing agency. Unless your argument is that he's a CIA plant, US foreign policy is not responsible for his actions.

[MOBIUS]

US foreign policy towards Russia after the Soviet Union turned the country into the wild west.

They achieved the destruction of the Soviet Union and simply walked away.

Putin rose from the wreckage.

Check out Jeffrey Sachs for a good history take. He was there. They could have done a Marshall Plan style support, like postwar Germany and Japan, but they left the country to the dogs...

Despite all that, Putin wanted to be a friend to the West and they turned their back on him too.

The CIA did the same in Afghanistan after funding the Mujahedeen resistance to the Soviets that ultimately kicked them out in 1979 (I think?). Have you heard of Charley Wilson's war? Left Afghanistan to the dogs too and guess what happened - ultimately those dogs came back to bite them with 9/11.

America under neo-liberalism only knows how to destroy.

It used to know how to rebuild, notably with Germany and Japan, and arguably with South Korea and Taiwan. Though with the latter countries, they were happy to openly support murderous dictatorships. I guess it was because it was during the Cold War era...

Actually, the US has a great track record of destabilising democracies and supporting dictatorships the world over, up to and including this present day... 👎

[N35t0r]

Actually, the US has a great track record of destabilising democracies and supporting dictatorships the world over, up to and including this present day... 👎

As did/do the Soviet Union and then Russia (although you were justifying the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia the other day, so for you it's probably all fine and dandy when Russia does, the UK, France...

Putin never wanted to be a friend of the West, just to take advantage.

And if by "they left the country to the dogs" you mean "they left the country to Russians", then I guess you're right, but I don't see how calling Putin and his oligarch lackeys dogs somehow absolves them. Yes, the US' actions after the fall of the Soviet Union did give rise to a particularly ruthless crop of oligarchs to rise to the top, but unlike what some smaller countries can claim, in Russia they are all 100% Russian, and Putin is at the top of that pyramid. It's the Russian people that got shafted, but then they kept voting for the same *******s even back when fraud and interference wasn't as widespread as now. It also happened 35 years ago, and it also happened to a whole bunch of other former components of the USSR and other Eastern block countries who got exactly the same treatment, and somehow managed to turn up pretty decently and have been mostly improving (well, except for those that thought that Russia was their friend, and got to become subjects of the Russian emperor instead).

[Geronimo]

I hate both Trump and Putin. My logic is consistent.

My point is there are plenty of people that hate Putin but love Trump (including here on Poly), which in my opinion is a logically inconsistent point of view.

Also I theorise that a lot of what Putin has done has been out of necessity or realpolitik, whereas Trump is cruel because he can... It feels clear to me who the worse person is in that situation.

It's just a theory, of course, and I'm certainly not defending Putin for his actions and never have. But he is a product of US foreign policy and for that reason, I can certainly see the logic to his actions.

how many people do you see here who "love" Trump and hate Putin? Dinner maybe?

Also, while I'm sure a hefty consensus exists here that both Trump and Putin are terribly harmful leaders I'd love to hear you explain how someone "loving" one of them and "hating" the other would somehow constitute "a logically inconsistent point of view",.

[giblets]

I hate both Trump and Putin. My logic is consistent.

My point is there are plenty of people that hate Putin but love Trump (including here on Poly), which in my opinion is a logically inconsistent point of view.

Also I theorise that a lot of what Putin has done has been out of necessity or realpolitik, whereas Trump is cruel because he can... It feels clear to me who the worse person is in that situation.

It's just a theory, of course, and I'm certainly not defending Putin for his actions and never have. But he is a product of US foreign policy and for that reason, I can certainly see the logic to his actions.

"Realpolitik" is a term used by people like Henry Kissinger to rationalize their atrocities.

[BeBMan]

Poor Putin doesn't do anything on his own, it's all US-driven is Kremlin BS.

[Berzerker]

I don't think many Trump supporters want the war in Ukraine to continue. The GOP establishment that does got their way in his 1st term.

[BeBMan]

I'm shocked that nobody has pointed out yet how wrong the OP is. I mean, "monkies", srsly?

[Bereta_Eder]

that capitalistofascist will not achieve peace. the ukraine thing will burst in his face because it will explode on his term,


he narrowlly escaped the fganistan fiasco but he'll be all there the orange nazi for the ukrainian deal, which is war without end. and without europe

[Bereta_Eder]

also the US is officially sponsoring ethnic cleaning in the middle east

capitalism and fascism are the same. as they have always been