Trump.

[Ming]

gee... both parties worked together to get the best bill possible. It would have been an improvement over what's going on now.
But it wasn't Trump idea, and it would take away his border rants... so screw the rest of his party and the American people. FACT!
While everybody else was trying to work on a solution, and agreed to it, Trump killed it for his own potential personal gain. Just another perfect example that Trump only cares about himself.

[Dinner]

No bill is perfect. The bill would have "helped" the problem. It was a step in the right direction.
But Trump doesn't care since it wasn't his. Now he can claim the Dems aren't doing anything even though he is the one not trying to solve the problem.
As usual, Trump first, Americans second (or don't matter)

The bill was terrible as it would have forced all future presidents to bit enforce the law until more than 5000 illegals a day crossed. It enshrined open borders into law and that is a fact.

[Ming]

When people start calling them vermin than it's a problem... oh wait...

[Lorizael]

In the US the Irish and Italians were infamous for totally "ruining" the "character" of the communities they would immigrate to...

Yeah man, and at the time, those swarthy Italians weren't considered white. Irish people may have been see as "white," but they weren't of the same civilized stock you found in England, say. Racism being adaptable doesn't make it not a thing.

[Ming]

No bill is perfect. The bill would have "helped" the problem. It was a step in the right direction.
But Trump doesn't care since it wasn't his. Now he can claim the Dems aren't doing anything even though he is the one not trying to solve the problem.
As usual, Trump first, Americans second (or don't matter)

[Geronimo]

At least it's clear that Geronimo would have argued that Hitler wasn't really as bad as those socialists and communists were accusing him well into '33.

Really? Such as when they split Poland with Hitler after signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? I'm sure they were calling him the devil incarnate after they signed that (before he stabbed them in the back that is). Oh I'm sorry that's why you dropped the '33 reference. Not because later events otherwise make your point look foolish. If the socialists had said that Hitler planned to make everybody speak only German and forbid all other languages (as a hypothetical example) if I were alive to comment I'd be quick to say that there is plenty enough evil Hitler schemes to critique without pulling crap out of our arses to undermine our credibility with.

What is it with Trump's detractors all dead set on establishing meaningful parallels to Adolf Hitler when there is basicially no substance to the parallels at all.

[Geronimo]

Immigration is a hot button... but that has a lot to do with Trump and the Maga crowd stirring up their hatred and fear.
Our current immigration system sucks. But since Trump is using it as a election cry, he refused to support reforms that would have helped, simply so the Dems can't claim they are doing something. As usual, Trump cares only about himself and not Americans.

The republicans claim that the proposed reforms would primarily consist of more money for more judges and lawyers for faster processing of asylum claims which they assert will give the administration in power plenty of judges to appoint and cronies to employ but not substantially solve the "catch and release" problem of immigrants simply not showing up for their court date since an earlier court date will not necessarily improve compliance with returning for it.

However here is a summary of the key provisions in the Secure the Border Act of 2023 (S. 2824):

1. Border Wall Construction: Requires the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to resume activities to construct a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border¹.
2. Operation Stonegarden: Provides statutory authorization for Operation Stonegarden, which grants funds to law enforcement agencies for certain border security operations¹.
3. Entry Processing Restrictions: Prohibits DHS from processing the entry of non-U.S. nationals arriving between ports of entry¹.
4. Asylum Eligibility: Limits asylum eligibility to non-U.S. nationals who arrive in the United States at a port of entry¹.
5. Removal Authorization: Authorizes the removal of a non-U.S. national to a country other than that individual’s country of nationality or last lawful habitual residence¹.
6. Expanded Ineligibility for Asylum: Expands the types of crimes that may make an individual ineligible for asylum, such as a conviction for driving while intoxicated causing another person’s serious bodily injury or death¹.
7. Suspension of Entry: Authorizes DHS to suspend the introduction of certain non-U.S. nationals at an international border if necessary to achieve operational control of that border¹.
8. Licensing Requirements: Prohibits states from imposing licensing requirements on immigration detention facilities used to detain minors¹.
9. Unaccompanied Alien Children: Authorizes immigration officers to permit an unaccompanied alien child to withdraw their application for admission into the United States even if the child is unable to make an independent decision to withdraw the application¹.
10. Visa Overstay Penalties: Imposes additional penalties for overstaying a visa¹.
11. Employment Eligibility System: Requires DHS to create an electronic employment eligibility confirmation system modeled after the E-Verify system and requires all employers to use the system¹.

To me, there is so much here that Republicans use as talking points that any voting against the bill don't have a leg to stand on if they want to raise these issues again. In particular I can't fathom why so many border security agents still support Trump after he publicly spoke out against passing the bill (which most of them supported passing). Maybe Dinner could explain? I don't rule out that there couid be some buried provisions that are problematic but this is sausage making and you got to put up or shut up generally.
​
​

[N35t0r]

At least it's clear that Geronimo would have argued that Hitler wasn't really as bad as those socialists and communists were accusing him well into '33.

[Ming]

Immigration is a hot button... but that has a lot to do with Trump and the Maga crowd stirring up their hatred and fear.
Our current immigration system sucks. But since Trump is using it as a election cry, he refused to support reforms that would have helped, simply so the Dems can't claim they are doing something. As usual, Trump cares only about himself and not Americans.

[Geronimo]

It's true, he didn't say minorities. He just got to his police purge idea from a starting place of "migrant crime." And immigrants can be from anywhere and definitely aren't just funny-looking brown people. German and Norwegian immigrants can totally also ruin the "character" of a community.

Europe is full of white people and yet for some reason plenty of other white people from other parts of Europe or other white places like Turkey or Afghanistan (I'm not buying that those places are "brown") can find themselves unwelcome to live there by white Europeans complaining that they can totally ruin the "character" of a community. In the US the Irish and Italians were infamous for totally "ruining" the "character" of the communities they would immigrate to and yes the Germans and Norwegians were all found to present the same scary threat in that regard.

When Trump preaches to audiences about ruining the "character" of the community he is recycling the same language that was used against those impoverished desperate German and Norwegian newcomers to tap into many of the same fears. Nobody wants *their* community to have to deal with the desperate impoverished (possibly linguistically separated) newcomers and that's the fear and concerns that Trump is tapping into. Not racism. If a community were to receive a boatload of wealthy families from Southern India I guarantee that Trump and his supporters would raise far less fuss than if a boatload impoverished tow-headed refugees from the caucuses were to arrive instead. Property values, public school education quality and yes crime all worsen with each impoverished immigrant on the average.

It's NIMBYism and I hate Nimbys. Our economy needs plenty of immigrants including some unskilled ones and the low and slow legal immigration process is a serious problem and if they happen to see our neighborhoods as attractive I recommend focusing on the bright side and trying to make them feel welcome. Not voting for Trump. I do not recommend finding the alarmed Nimbys and telling them that the *real* reason they don't want the impoverished immigrants is because of how racist they all are

[Lorizael]

It's true, he didn't say minorities. He just got to his police purge idea from a starting place of "migrant crime." And immigrants can be from anywhere and definitely aren't just funny-looking brown people. German and Norwegian and Dutch immigrants can totally also ruin the "character" of a community.

[Geronimo]

Honestly I think Trump supporters believe all his BS because they see for themselves the rest of the media say various things about him that turns out to be trivially easy to debunk (by being personally at the offending speech or even just by sitting through the whole rambling thing on You tube). Trump's detractors in government and media don't seem to understand that any time that people think they are catching "the mainstream media" (who is recognized to be all of his hostile press coverage) or elected officials or public servants in a lie about Trump that somehow that massively raises his credibility in their eyes and massively increases the difficulty of raising awareness of Trump's real deficiencies by seriously undermining the credibility of all of Trump's dectractors.

[Ming]

That's because his cult following doesn't see him as such, and continue to believe every lie he says.

[Geronimo]

Wasn't the Purge, he just wants the cops to have free reign to do whatever they want to minorities

really? did he say the word "minorities"? what part of the speech? must've been some kind of dog whistle right? Maybe some other speech where he said or implied that if only cops were free to do whatever they like to minorities crime would be solved?

Why is it that with someone who is such a deeply flawed narcissistic grossly underqualified and racially insensitive ***** that people so often seem to make up completely new unflattering things from thin air to hold him to account for instead?

[giblets]

Wasn't the Purge, he just wants the cops to have free reign to do whatever they want to minorities