Voting Fraud

[Jon Miller]

Maybe this is a better place.

I haven't seen good information about this, although people are looking for it more the last few years.

The biggest news I can find, with possibly the most impact, is

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/woman-arrested-voter-fraud-scheme

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149249686/iowa-52-counts-voter-fraud

But the website that seems to focus on voter fraud the most, a right-wing oriented website, doesn't mention it... so not sure how complete or biased it's sample is

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=IA&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All

This is maybe a better picture

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-only-trump-supporters-arrested-2020-election-fraud-1730592

Anyone seen anything else the last 3 years since focus has come to this issue?

JM

[Geronimo]

Are you not listing Harry Wait because he was listed in the Russia thread or because you didn't find that one?

[Geronimo]

I applaud starting a dedicated thread btw.

[Jon Miller]

I just didn't want to reply in that thread and thought the topic interesting to continue.

There are a lot of other examples (where lot is still pretty small), I gave the Iowa example because it looked to be a bigger impact, rather then some felon not understanding that they couldn't vote yet or someone voting twice for their dead wife. Then I looked for studies or summaries or something.

The link from the other thread:

https://www.fox6now.com/news/wisconsin-election-fraud-charges-wait

JM

[EPW]

Republicans can't be trusted with the vote

[PLATO]

Democrats can't be trusted with the vote

[Berzerker]

I'm more worried about paperless voting, far too easy rigging elections thru machines

[pchang]

Don’t say that on TV. I doubt you have the cash reserves of Fox News.

[pchang]

Here is a useful guide on how and why many of the "voter fraud" restrictions proposed and passed by Republicans are just thinly veiled attempts at reducing the number of minority votes.

[Dauphin]

I'm more worried about paperless voting, far too easy rigging elections thru machines

Something I agree with you on, but probably for different reasons....

I am of the view that any machine voting or counting system must have the ability to be paper record verified / audited. There are ways to reduce machine / code manipulation or outright hacking, but you need more sophisticated tools and then it is harder to explain to random folk why they are valid and fair compared to the tangible ballot review.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

we ALL know adam (dems) can't be trusted. to be honest, the puppet is clueless. leave him alone. it would be elder abuse to hold him to any level. his mind is gone. there are others to go after.

[PLATO]

Here is a useful guide on how and why many of the "voter fraud" restrictions proposed and passed by Republicans are just thinly veiled attempts at reducing the number of minority votes.

Basically this is just a list of studies that show two things:

1.) Enforcing ID requirements lessens voter turnout
2.) More minorities are affected by not having identification

This is not voter suppression. If there were requirements in place that made it harder for minorities to get identification then it would be. Identification is freely available and pretty much free to get in every state in the Union.

This is akin to saying that a bank requiring ID to cash a check is racially motivated. It is simply ridiculous. As a voter you should only have one responsibility...prove you are who you say you are. The government has made this easy to do. The fact that minorities do not take advantage of this at a higher rate than non-minorities should not be a factor in protecting the integrity of the voting system.

If you are to lazy to get a free ID, don't complain to me that you can't vote.

[pchang]

When you make government ID a requirement but then do not open government offices in minority neighborhoods, that is discrimination.

[Jon Miller]

This is not voter suppression. If there were requirements in place that made it harder for minorities to get identification then it would be. Identification is freely available and pretty much free to get in every state in the Union.

If you are to lazy to get a free ID, don't complain to me that you can't vote.

I am pretty sure we went over this years ago. There are many places where IDs are not free, and are a significant hassle to get, depending on life situation.

I know of people even liberal states who have difficulty because they lose their birth certificate and SS card and it is a significant hassle for them to re-establish their identity, requiring many days of work and travel to various places which can be costly (I think Texas was reportedly very difficult to IDs in various places).

Additionally, often voting IDs requires proof of residence that can be difficult to establish (I ran into this issue before, I solved it but did need a bit of help).

Here are some costs https://ballotpedia.org/Driver%27s_l...by_state,_2018

Honestly, if we had a federal free ID for voting or getting benefits, I would support it and then would be agree with requiring it. But it would need to be federal, so that there could be a federal outreach effort that helps solve peoples problems with getting ID (like missing birth certificates/etc). Probably the federal outreach would only need to go on for 4-10 years, since my understanding is that the people with problems are usually older or had difficulties earlier in life.

JM

[Berzerker]

an unknown amateur is tied for the lead at The Open

and I agree with Plato about voter ID

What really needs reform are the long lines facing people wanting to vote in cities. I'm rural, I wait maybe 5 minutes, show my ID and vote. I wouldn't vote that way if I had to stand in line for 1-2 hours, many cant physically do it, and some people cant show up to vote. Monitored drop boxes to see if people are stuffing the boxes and for whom (or just rely on mail in ballots). I saw video from Georgia of people shoving piles of ballots into drop boxes. They should have someone watch each day's record before the ballots inside are removed.

[PLATO]

I am pretty sure we went over this years ago. There are many places where IDs are not free, and are a significant hassle to get, depending on life situation.

I know of people even liberal states who have difficulty because they lose their birth certificate and SS card and it is a significant hassle for them to re-establish their identity, requiring many days of work and travel to various places which can be costly (I think Texas was reportedly very difficult to IDs in various places).

Additionally, often voting IDs requires proof of residence that can be difficult to establish (I ran into this issue before, I solved it but did need a bit of help).

Here are some costs https://ballotpedia.org/Driver%27s_l...by_state,_2018

Honestly, if we had a federal free ID for voting or getting benefits, I would support it and then would be agree with requiring it. But it would need to be federal, so that there could be a federal outreach effort that helps solve peoples problems with getting ID (like missing birth certificates/etc). Probably the federal outreach would only need to go on for 4-10 years, since my understanding is that the people with problems are usually older or had difficulties earlier in life.

JM

I see your point. I agree that federal action is needed. However, I think it would be better to compel states to accomplish this rather than create a new federal bureaucracy. Laws specific to ID's issued that are valid for voting would be a welcome idea. Existing state identifications could come under these minimum requirements on a renewal basis. Fees charged for enhancements to an ID (like a driving privilege) could be set to cover the costs of the entire program.

[Jon Miller]

That seems like a good idea, and you are right that a new federal bureaucracy should be avoided (I was imagining connecting it to SS or USPS).

JM