Politics Thread

[Berzerker]

My position wouldn't change regardless of who was in Trump's shoes

[Geronimo]

Either you're way younger than I think, or you seem to have forgotten that Bush invaded two countries, one under totally false premises, and squandered millions of lives and billions of dollars in the process.

Okay, had thousands of US citizens killed and billions of dollars. I'm sure Biden has been much worse.

Budget deficit under Bush was -3.4% of the national economy. terrible. Budget deficit under Obama -5.8% of the national economy. even worse. Budget deficit under Trump -5.6% of the national economy (how can he call himself a conservative??) Under Biden the budget deficit has averaged -8.8% of the national economy. Just wow. It's like he had to upstage them all somehow. other fusterclucks can be fixable but national debt is extremely difficult to fix even when times are good.

[N35t0r]

Okay, had thousands of US citizens killed and billions of dollars. I'm sure Biden has been much worse.

[Dauphin]

In this thread I am also disgusted that defendants, even those never criminally prosecuted, can be punished for publicly verbally denying accusations against themselves. This should be shocking but the potential has been established in the dystopian legal system for decades. However I am astonished nonetheless that people can so breezily dismiss this dangerous flaw in the legal system
so long as the example they see is a public menace like Trump.

1) Trump was found liable in a civil court for defamation, not for protesting innocence. To my knowledge a criminal conviction has never been required to win a civil case, but it would make the civil case a slam-dunk. People and corporate entities are constantly being sued successfully for fraud, negligence, etc without ever having a criminal conviction for the alleged act. Class action lawsuits often allege acts that are criminal, but criminality is not required to be proven to be successful in the action.
2) Trump was found liable on more than just a 50:50 basis. He was found liable on the standard of clear and convincing evidence - which is a higher standard.
3) Trump was found to have been acting with malicious intent.

FWIW, I don't think the damages awarded are commensurate with what he did, but I don't have a concern with the principle at play.

The alternative is to make any civil claim based on a criminal offence (e.g. fraud) require a criminal conviction. I think that would be a more concerning legal development.

[Geronimo]

I'll agree that Bush's foreign policy did the worst damage. If I didn't live in the US and care more about domestic politics I'm sure I'd agree with you. I should add that I've rejected any estimates of Iraq war deaths that even approach millions.

[N35t0r]

Either you're way younger than I think, or you seem to have forgotten that Bush invaded two countries, one under totally false premises, and squandered millions of lives and billions of dollars in the process.

[Geronimo]

I see you are defending your hero Trump again... oh, that's right, you don't like him, just defend him.

All you need to know
And Trump thought it was ok to grab women by the crotch because they love it... On tape.
Paid hush money to a porn star... Fact
Is a proven liar about just about everything.
Was found GUILTY by a jury based on the facts in the case, and not some mumbo jumbo Berz found in an internet video.

This is all true. Trump is an embarrassment as a US president and an appalling disgrace as a human in general. He may actually make me vote Biden rather than protest vote this year just to do my small part to stop him. For the record, Biden may be the most damaging president in my lifetime. I will still often "defend" Trump when I suspect I see a double standard however, especially in left leaning forums.

In this thread I am also disgusted that defendants, even those never criminally prosecuted, can be punished for publicly verbally denying accusations against themselves. This should be shocking but the potential has been established in the dystopian legal system for decades. However I am astonished nonetheless that people can so breezily dismiss this dangerous flaw in the legal system
so long as the example they see is a public menace like Trump.

[Ming]

"It's hard to find on Google, so here's what you need to know about E. Jean Carroll, most of which was deemed "inadmissible" by the judge:

- She couldn't recall the date, month, season, or year the incident happened
- She never told anyone about it, despite being publicly obsessed with her own sexuality.
- The dress she claims to have been wearing didn't exist at the time
- Her description of the dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman was inaccurate, making her sequence of events impossible
- Her lawsuit was bankrolled by Jeffrey Epstein pal and Democrat (and Nikki Haley) mega-donor Reid Hoffman
- Democrats created a law (The Adult Survivors Act in 2022) to enable her lawsuit to proceed
- Her accusation is the exact plotline of an episode of Law & Order (one of her "favorite shows")
- Trump's Apprentice was also one of her favorite shows
- She has a history of falsely accusing men of r*pe, including Les Moonves
- She told Anderson Cooper, "most people think of r*pe as being sexy. Think of the fantasies."
- She made a career promoting promiscuity, even writing glowingly of sexual assault and naming her cat Vag_na"

Politically targeted retribution under the guise of justice..."

from No Jo From Jerz on X

I see you are defending your hero Trump again... oh, that's right, you don't like him, just defend him.

All you need to know
And Trump thought it was ok to grab women by the crotch because they love it... On tape.
Paid hush money to a porn star... Fact
Is a proven liar about just about everything.
Was found GUILTY by a jury based on the facts in the case, and not some mumbo jumbo Berz found in an internet video.

[pchang]

Media often have no idea about they are reporting on as well.

[Berzerker]

isn't that sweet of her to be thinking about women and children in Gaza while accusing advocates of a cease fire of being traitors

government is a magnet for sociopaths

[Dauphin]

As a practice, I like to read the actual trial documents, rather than news coverage. Media often lie by omission.

[Dauphin]

Did you find a link to the complete instructions?

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18418220/carroll-v-trump/?order_by=desc

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790.280.4.pdf

See Section III of the second link.

As point of law, the jury were not being instructed to assess if Trump was guilty of sexual assault, or that prior statements were defamatory. That had been settled by a prior civil jury trial - and is where a lot of the garbage about 'inadmissible evidence' is coming from - the case was settled, the facts were already determined in that case and were not open for re-litigation. They were being asked specific questions about the level of damages, as set out in the instructions, and the jury verdict form

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790.280.1.pdf

[Berzerker]

“They are in front of my house all the time. I have a feeling for what feelings they have. But we have to think about what we’re doing. And what we have to do is try to stop the suffering in Gaza. This is women and children, people who don’t have a place to go, so let’s address that. But for them to call for a cease-fire is Mr. Putin’s message, Mr. Putin’s message. Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see. Same thing with Ukraine. It’s about Putin’s message. I think some of these protesters are spontaneous, and organic and sincere. Some, I think, are connected to Russia. I say that having looked at this for a long time.”

When Bash followed up to ask whether she was actually stating that these protesters are “Russian plants,” Pelosi doubled down and said that the groups and their financing “should be investigated.”

and she represents San Francisco! Holy shi'ite

[Berzerker]

"It's hard to find on Google, so here's what you need to know about E. Jean Carroll, most of which was deemed "inadmissible" by the judge:

- She couldn't recall the date, month, season, or year the incident happened
- She never told anyone about it, despite being publicly obsessed with her own sexuality.
- The dress she claims to have been wearing didn't exist at the time
- Her description of the dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman was inaccurate, making her sequence of events impossible
- Her lawsuit was bankrolled by Jeffrey Epstein pal and Democrat (and Nikki Haley) mega-donor Reid Hoffman
- Democrats created a law (The Adult Survivors Act in 2022) to enable her lawsuit to proceed
- Her accusation is the exact plotline of an episode of Law & Order (one of her "favorite shows")
- Trump's Apprentice was also one of her favorite shows
- She has a history of falsely accusing men of r*pe, including Les Moonves
- She told Anderson Cooper, "most people think of r*pe as being sexy. Think of the fantasies."
- She made a career promoting promiscuity, even writing glowingly of sexual assault and naming her cat Vag_na"

Politically targeted retribution under the guise of justice..."

from No Jo From Jerz on X

[EPW]

I think she should get more. He's the former President of the United States, a self-proclaimed billionaire, and has millions of lunatic followers. She could very well get murdered. I think the harassment she is now getting and debasement she gets from people like you and Geronimo is more than enough proof that the verdict and punishment were extremely justified. Frankly, **** you.